(01-20-2021, 09:40 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: Ask everyone knows you only have so much money to spend.

We already have 2 good WR that will be making lots of money. We need a deep threat WR with 4.3-4.4 speed that teams have to respect.

I am still not sure why John Ross was not that guy unless he was too small or could not reliably catch the ball.

We should be able to find someone in the 4th-6th round that will work.

I actually read this twice to see if maybe I didn't read it correctly the first time.  I'm still not sure what to make of this post.

You do know that a rookie WR will be relatively cheap, right?  He'd be making slightly under Adam Humphries type of money (8 mil).  Following the cap hits of Tua from last year, his cap hits would resemeble the following:  5.5 mil, 6.8 mil, 8.2 mil, 9.6 mil.

You'd have him locked up for 4 years at a rookie scale contract.  Even an early entension would still include these salary, with maybe some frontloading on year 4 via a signing bonus.

We also have Tee Higgins locked in for another 3 years at 1.9 mil, 2.3 mil, and 2.7 mil.  Again, same as above, even an extension will include these years, with maybe some frontloading of the signing bonus on his 4th year (think Joe Mixons cap hit this year as an example).

Tyler Boyd, our highest paid receiver, was the 29th highest paid receiver last year.  He's due to be the 26th highest paid receiver in 2021.  He, like Higgins, is also locked up for 3 more years.

All of the above should tell you one simple thing, money is not an issue at the position.  Where we're near the top in RB spending, we're near the bottom of WR spending.  And drafting a 1st round WR won't skyrocket us in that department either.

So if you're opposed to taking one then you're going to come up with an actual reason.  Saying we already have two highly paid WR is simply untrue.

Lastly, you say we're in need of a deep threat WR with 4.3-4.4 speed who defenses will respect.  Yet you solution to this is to take one in the 4th-6th round.  Huh?

Sometimes I wonder if some people on here actually think about what they're saying, or if they just throw out random numbers without any thought behind them.  You're not getting a 4.3-4.4 WR in those rounds unless they're like 5'8, and/or they have serious other concerns.  The odds of you landing a WR there, that can immediately be penciled in, that is also deep threat who teams have to respect, are slim to none.

(01-20-2021, 01:06 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I actually read this twice to see if maybe I didn't read it correctly the first time.  I'm still not sure what to make of this post.

You do know that a rookie WR will be relatively cheap, right?  He'd be making slightly under Adam Humphries type of money (8 mil).  Following the cap hits of Tua from last year, his cap hits would resemeble the following:  5.5 mil, 6.8 mil, 8.2 mil, 9.6 mil.

You'd have him locked up for 4 years at a rookie scale contract.  Even an early entension would still include these salary, with maybe some frontloading on year 4 via a signing bonus.

We also have Tee Higgins locked in for another 3 years at 1.9 mil, 2.3 mil, and 2.7 mil.  Again, same as above, even an extension will include these years, with maybe some frontloading of the signing bonus on his 4th year (think Joe Mixons cap hit this year as an example).

Tyler Boyd, our highest paid receiver, was the 29th highest paid receiver last year.  He's due to be the 26th highest paid receiver in 2021.  He, like Higgins, is also locked up for 3 more years.

All of the above should tell you one simple thing, money is not an issue at the position.  Where we're near the top in RB spending, we're near the bottom of WR spending.  And drafting a 1st round WR won't skyrocket us in that department either.

So if you're opposed to taking one then you're going to come up with an actual reason.  Saying we already have two highly paid WR is simply untrue.

Lastly, you say we're in need of a deep threat WR with 4.3-4.4 speed who defenses will respect.  Yet you solution to this is to take one in the 4th-6th round.  Huh?

Sometimes I wonder if some people on here actually think about what they're saying, or if they just throw out random numbers without any thought behind them.  You're not getting a 4.3-4.4 WR in those rounds unless they're like 5'8, and/or they have serious other concerns.  The odds of you landing a WR there, that can immediately be penciled in, that is also deep threat who teams have to respect, are slim to none.

Wes I’m sure the bengals can go to Wal Mart or even Target and search the bargain bins and find some great athletic freak with 4.3 speed no ones heard of with amazing catch radius and unbelievable hands.

I read that too sometimes, speed guys are found in late rounds or something as they start right away. I wonder how delusional fans here really are some times

(01-20-2021, 03:11 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Wes I’m sure the bengals can go to Wal Mart or even Target and search the bargain bins and find some great athletic freak with 4.3 speed no ones heard of with amazing catch radius and unbelievable hands.

I read that too sometimes, speed guys are found in late rounds or something as they start right away. I wonder how delusional fans here really are some times

They say it takes at least 3 years for WR to reach full potential.. Crazy when you think about, Higgins, Jefferson and Claypool...

The reason we need a third good WR has little to do with raw speed - that would be the Al Davis way of thinking that resulted in the Raiders drafting bust after bust. It has a lot more to do with our offensive system being built on a 3 WR set and our WR group quality falls off a cliff after Boyd and Higgins. We need to clean house in that area and rebuild after Tyler and Tee, especially as we use our TE as an inline blocker and barring replacing Hart with an OT who can play on an island we will still be stuck like that.

(01-20-2021, 04:17 PM)Joelist Wrote: The reason we need a third good WR has little to do with raw speed - that would be the Al Davis way of thinking that resulted in the Raiders drafting bust after bust. It has a lot more to do with our offensive system being built on a 3 WR set and our WR group quality falls off a cliff after Boyd and Higgins. We need to clean house in that area and rebuild after Tyler and Tee, especially as we use our TE as an inline blocker and barring replacing Hart with an OT who can play on an island we will still be stuck like that.

Similar to the nickel CB being a starter these days.

(01-20-2021, 01:06 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I actually read this twice to see if maybe I didn't read it correctly the first time.  I'm still not sure what to make of this post.

You do know that a rookie WR will be relatively cheap, right?  He'd be making slightly under Adam Humphries type of money (8 mil).  Following the cap hits of Tua from last year, his cap hits would resemeble the following:  5.5 mil, 6.8 mil, 8.2 mil, 9.6 mil.

You'd have him locked up for 4 years at a rookie scale contract.  Even an early entension would still include these salary, with maybe some frontloading on year 4 via a signing bonus.

We also have Tee Higgins locked in for another 3 years at 1.9 mil, 2.3 mil, and 2.7 mil.  Again, same as above, even an extension will include these years, with maybe some frontloading of the signing bonus on his 4th year (think Joe Mixons cap hit this year as an example).

Tyler Boyd, our highest paid receiver, was the 29th highest paid receiver last year.  He's due to be the 26th highest paid receiver in 2021.  He, like Higgins, is also locked up for 3 more years.

All of the above should tell you one simple thing, money is not an issue at the position.  Where we're near the top in RB spending, we're near the bottom of WR spending.  And drafting a 1st round WR won't skyrocket us in that department either.

So if you're opposed to taking one then you're going to come up with an actual reason.  Saying we already have two highly paid WR is simply untrue.

Lastly, you say we're in need of a deep threat WR with 4.3-4.4 speed who defenses will respect.  Yet you solution to this is to take one in the 4th-6th round.  Huh?

Sometimes I wonder if some people on here actually think about what they're saying, or if they just throw out random numbers without any thought behind them.  You're not getting a 4.3-4.4 WR in those rounds unless they're like 5'8, and/or they have serious other concerns.  The odds of you landing a WR there, that can immediately be penciled in, that is also deep threat who teams have to respect, are slim to none.

Sorry about the typo. I am now aware that I need to explain myself better for you to understand.

I am well aware that anyone we draft will be under a rookie contract for less money than a veteran. The problem is we can only count on fixing so many things via the draft so we will need to rely on FA's. The reason I brought up our current WR's was not about their contracts but more about their production. I think they are above average WR's that command attention from a defense. The question I was asking is "Do we need a 1st round WR" or can we go with a later round guy that can run a 4.3 - 4.4. Then you replied "Huh". Great response by the way. Very inciteful. Did you bother to check if there was a WR that fit that description? Here are some links for you to check out. BTW Marquez Stevenson is 6' and 190 lbs and runs a 4.4 40 yard dash and is a projected 4th round pick. He is comparable in size to to Ja'Marr Chase 6'1" - 200 lbs who may run a 4.4 40 yard dash at the combine.

If we get him in the 4th maybe we can then spend a first on a OL or DB. Because of the drop off in talent at those positions in the later rounds.

Marquez Stevenson Info
https://www.rotoworld.com/college-football/nfl-draft/player/39386/marquez-stevenson


Marquez Stevenson Highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOPlvrt8WPI

(01-20-2021, 06:27 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: Sorry about the typo. I am now aware that I need to explain myself better for you to understand.

I am well aware that anyone we draft will be under a rookie contract for less money than a veteran. The problem is we can only count on fixing so many things via the draft so we will need to rely on FA's. The reason I brought up our current WR's was not about their contracts but more about their production. I think they are above average WR's that command attention from a defense. The question I was asking is "Do we need a 1st round WR" or can we go with a later round guy that can run a 4.3 - 4.4. Then you replied "Huh". Great response by the way. Very inciteful. Did you bother to check if there was a WR that fit that description? Here are some links for you to check out. BTW Marquez Stevenson is 6' and 190 lbs and runs a 4.4 40 yard dash and is a projected 4th round pick. He is comparable in size to to Ja'Marr Chase 6'1" - 200 lbs who may run a 4.4 40 yard dash at the combine.

If we get him in the 4th maybe we can then spend a first on a OL or DB. Because of the drop off in talent at those positions in the later rounds.

Marquez Stevenson Info
https://www.rotoworld.com/college-football/nfl-draft/player/39386/marquez-stevenson


Marquez Stevenson Highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOPlvrt8WPI

In the link you posted it literally says if he runs a 4.4 he's likely a day 2 prospect. Also, that's one guy. The fact remains, it's hard to get a take the top off the defense guy who's actually good the later in the draft you go. If someone like that is making it to rounds 4+ there's typically some other definite concerns. 

It can be really hard to hit on receivers that late but we've done it before.

(01-20-2021, 06:27 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: The reason I brought up our current WR's was not about their contracts but more about their production.

These were the very first two sentences of your post...

(9 hours ago)SuperBowlBound! Wrote:

Ask everyone knows you only have so much money to spend.

We already have 2 good WR that will be making lots of money.

(01-20-2021, 07:16 PM)TheFan Wrote: In the link you posted it literally says if he runs a 4.4 he's likely a day 2 prospect. Also, that's one guy. The fact remains, it's hard to get a take the top off the defense guy who's actually good the later in the draft you go. If someone like that is making it to rounds 4+ there's typically some other definite concerns. 

It can be really hard to hit on receivers that late but we've done it before.

I'm pretty familar with the guy he posted about as a UC fan (Stevenson went to Houston who is also in the AAC).

-He missed significant time in 3 out of his 5 years.  He played in only 2 games in year 1 because of a broken collarbone.  He missed his entire 2nd year with a torn ACL.  And he missed half of this year with an ankle injury.

-He's 23 years old.

-He primarily plays out of the slot.  He runs mostly the following routes: Screens, shovel passes, and a straight line down the field.  His biggest knock is route running.

-He was listed a 5'9 for his first few years.  Either he had a 3 inch growth spurt at 20 years old, or that 6ft designation you see now on the team media page may really be put to the test at official workouts and interviews.

Fwiw, I'm not hating on the dude.  I would have no problem with the Bengals drafting him if they elect to wait on a WR.  But the only way that works is if they go out and sign a proven veteran in free agency to fill that role until we know what we have in a guy like this.

To draft a Marquez Stevenson and just immediately insert him in as your down the field threat, and act like "problem solved" is borderline insane.

To each their own, but I'd go Chase in round 1 as I think a rookie WR can transition easier than a OL.  Then instead of investing in a vet WR (which we would have to to pair with someone like Stevenson) I'd use that money and put it into a proven OL in free agency. 

To each their own, but I'd go Chase in round 1 as I think a rookie WR can transition easier than a OL.  Then instead of investing in a vet WR (which we would have to to pair with someone like Stevenson) I'd use that money and put it into a proven OL in free agency. 
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It would be great to grab Chase. He would be my top WR pick.

So many ways they can go. I hope they fix OL problems with FA known commodities. Don't want to have to rely on rookies protecting Burrow's blind side. Trade down a little and land Pitts while adding another second round pick to get DL and CB. Get Stevenson or someone like him later in the draft. It is a deep WR class.

Hmmm... I don't think Burrow is the deep ball man Carson was...not sure getting a speedy WR will be to his advantage. He also didn't get those deep passes this year, could be because of the O-line, regardless I would not invest in a WR. Not yet at least.

(01-20-2021, 09:23 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: Hmmm... I don't think Burrow is the deep ball man Carson was...not sure getting a speedy WR will be to his advantage. He also didn't get those deep passes this year, could be because of the O-line, regardless I would not invest in a WR. Not yet at least.

Having someone who can take the top off and not allow both safeties to play down can open up the field for everyone though. Boyd and Higgins don't really have that in their game. Obviously they can beat their man and go deep but it's not necessarily something teams plan against. 

(01-21-2021, 07:46 PM)TheFan Wrote: Having someone who can take the top off and not allow both safeties to play down can open up the field for everyone though. Boyd and Higgins don't really have that in their game. Obviously they can beat their man and go deep but it's not necessarily something teams plan against. 

Well Boyd early in season and Higgins later had times down field open..Burrow was inconsistent in his deep pass..I would say Burrow needs to get better at that and I do see Higgins with high point catch radius  improving on the deep pass

We need a WR that can take a simple route like a slant and simply out run the defense. Make the defense pay for a missed tackle

(01-21-2021, 07:54 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well Boyd early in season and Higgins later had times down field open..Burrow was inconsistent in his deep pass..I would say Burrow needs to get better at that and I do see Higgins with high point catch radius  improving on the deep pass

Higgins had some deep catches but would get ran down after the catch or have to make a contested catch. That's not the same as taking the top off the defense. Boyd is a little better but still not someone teams are going to shade safeties towards to stop the bomb. 

(01-20-2021, 09:23 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: Hmmm... I don't think Burrow is the deep ball man Carson was...not sure getting a speedy WR will be to his advantage. He also didn't get those deep passes this year, could be because of the O-line, regardless I would not invest in a WR. Not yet at least.

Well Burrow did just fine with Chase at LSU...

Get the OL fixed and draft a guy like Chase would be just fine with me. Have to spread the field.

I don't think Burrow's arm strength is the problem.

(01-21-2021, 09:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well Burrow did just fine with Chase at LSU...

Get the OL fixed and draft a guy like Chase would be just fine with me. Have to spread the field.

I don't think Burrow's arm strength is the problem.

It’s not arm strength. It’s timing. Most of his misses were actually overthrown.

I’m always a BPA guy unless you have a GLARING need at the QB or LT/RT positions. We do have a glaring need at RT IMO so if I were drafting I’d draft a RT no matter what if a top one is in reach. I’m not reaching for one tho. If there isn’t a top graded RT left I’m going BPA.

(01-21-2021, 10:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s not arm strength. It’s timing. Most of his misses were actually overthrown.

It can be a combo of  both.... Burrow does has a decent arm but not at the top end of QBs, so his deep balls tend to be a bit higher which can lead to inaccuracy and more time to defend.  It just is not a strength of his and an area of improvement that will help the team get better in the deep pass.  

If Sewell is gone, and you get offers to move back, you do it. This is a legit no brainer situation.

For a team to move from say 12 to 5, you'd be looking at getting and extra 2nd round pick.

If you get Christian Darrisaw and Terrace Marshall Jr or Marques Stevenson or Rashod Bateman this is much better for the team then just drafting Chase.