(01-18-2021, 06:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, I agree that Watson is a good QB and has some skills that are just extremely rare and those skills compare more to Rodgers
or Wilson but Burrow also compares to those guys as well. I mean, Burrow has escapability too. He is not only accurate like Brady,
Peyton or Brees but he can also run. I wouldn't trade Burrow for anyone, I honestly think he is the next great QB.

Watson is damn good but I don't think he will be great.

Really ??  Burrow had a solid year as a rookie but he is like a 3 to Watson 8 on escape and throwing on the run.. he does not have the arm strength that Watson does on the run...and that is one of Burrows big areas of improvement with throwing of pocket and on the run.. Burrow avg like 14 yards rushing a game, Watson double that with over 30 yards a game and I actually predicted that since at LSU he could sit in the pocket and did not face the pressure he got in the NFL plus the depth at WR i at LSU enabled him to have WRs much more open while in the pocket.

Watson is considered in the elite class area now.. Burrow is not even considered in that level where Watson is now.

(01-18-2021, 07:18 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Really ??  Burrow had a solid year as a rookie but he is like a 3 to Watson 8 on escape and throwing on the run.. he does not have the arm strength that Watson does on the run...and  that is one of Burrows big areas of improvement  with  throwing of pocket and on the run.. Burrow avg like 14 yards rushing a game, Watson double that with over 30 yards a game and I actually predicted that since at LSU he could sit in the pocket  and did not face the pressure he got in the NFL plus the depth at WR i at LSU enabled him to have WRs much more open while in the pocket.

Watson is considered in the elite class area now.. Burrow is not even considered in that level where Watson is now.

Of course Watson is a better runner, I said as much. Burrow is a good runner though and I believe is a more accurate passer 
while in the pocket. If we take care of the OL and protect Burrow I believe he will be better than Watson IMO.

It is okay to disagree but you have never really been on the Burrow train Essex.

(01-18-2021, 08:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Of course Watson is a better runner, I said as much. Burrow is a good runner though and I believe is a more accurate passer 
while in the pocket. If we take care of the OL and protect Burrow I believe he will be better than Watson IMO.

It is okay to disagree but you have never really been on the Burrow train Essex.

That’s putting it mildly. Lol

It’s also funny to me to see him pimping Watson now. When some of us where saying how classy Watson was to reach out to Burrow after his injury I remember old Essex thought Watson seemed like a “jerk” (weird take I know).

(01-18-2021, 09:17 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: That’s putting it mildly. Lol

It’s also funny to me to see him pimping Watson now. When some of us where saying how classy Watson was to reach out to Burrow after his injury I remember old Essex thought Watson seemed like a “jerk” (weird take I know).

Strange stuff. Burrow was breaking all kind of records and having a great season, maybe the best of any rookie of all time 
before the injury. Burrow definitely wasn't the problem. OL and DL are the problem now, I think if we get these areas sorted
out this team will be tough. The coaching should improve with the additions of Pollack and Hobby coaching the trenches.

Have a sneaking feeling we will be revisiting this thread on down the road.

I'm in the minority I guess, and I get why 100%. I'll defend my yes vote nonetheless. 

If it's a straight up 1 for 1 swap? (And Watson was keen on coming to Cincinnati) I take the trade, and this is why:

-Watson, despite finishing his 4th season in the NFL is just 1 year older than Burrow is. We know what Watson already is and that's a top 5 NFL QB who has consistently gotten better despite key departures at WR. Burrow, as great as he looked at times, still only has 10 games of NFL experience. He absolutely looks like he's going to be something special. Well, Watson already is. There's truly no wrong answer to this question, they're both dynamic young QB's on long-term multi-year deals.

-Both QB's have had knee injuries, Watson's was in his rookie year and he's been lights out ever since. We don't know yet how Burrow will bounce back. (He'll be fine, I'm just being practical.)

- This isn't a rental, while the later years of the contract don't look like a bargain (atm), Watson's signed for a year longer than Burrow is and those cap numbers will likely look pedestrian compared to the numbers when it's time to negotiate Burrow's second deal in 3 years or so.

- Speaking of Watson's contract, the signing bonus that's spread throughout the deal is still all on Houston. If Watson were to be traded I believe the cap hits on his new team would be significantly smaller (5.4M/yr through 2024). Also, his deal is structured in a way where the WORST year is 2023 (where a 17M roster bonus is due) so if they wanted out they can do so. The last two years the cap hits decline so the deal isn't heavily backloaded. It isn't a bad contract considering the production you're expecting to get and the age of the player in question, he'll turn 30 during the last season of the deal.

In summary, if it were a straight up swap I'd take Watson based on him being a firmly established top flight NFL QB signed for a year longer and still only 25 years old. It's not a knock on Burrow at all, I think he did fantastic all things considered this year and am not at all displeased that he's our QB. If they trade Watson they're going to get an absolute king's ransom for him even if Watson does his best to force their hand and depress their return. We're talking multiple first round picks just as a starting point. 

Edit: I absolutely would rather invest the cap money that would be committed to Watson towards fixing the O-Line and adding pieces to the Defense. I just looked at it in a vacuum of which QB: Burrow for 4 or Watson for 5?

(01-13-2021, 01:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I voted no primarily because of the cap hit.
2021 is only $15 mill but 2022 and 2023 are $40+ mill each year.
With Burrow, the Bengals have a way cheaper contract through 2023, in which they can use to build a better team overall.

This. It’s not just the players you’re trading it’s the contracts. Deshaun has definitely proven it on the field. Joe hasn’t yet though he was certainly trending that way. Star rookie qb contracts are Nfl gold


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Zak sucks and so do your stupid unenforceable rules. 

(01-17-2021, 04:56 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: You may be a diva but you don't own a company. I happen to own my own business and I do appreciate my employees input on a lot of things. The major decisions are still mine to make. I always liked the saying "Stay in your lane" that is what players should do.

The DW situation is reminding me of Dave Shula getting punked on the field.

(01-13-2021, 01:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The "big" off season talk in the NFL is Watson wants out on Houston. Mike Brown calls you and states:

"I've followed you on the message board and I am impressed with your football acumen; it appears second only to bfine's. The Texans have called and inquired if I'm willing to trade Joe Burrow for Deshaun Watson. Do you think I should do it?"




RULES:
No Zac sux answers
No They wouldn't do it answers
No counter trade answers
Simply would you do it and why/not

Not right now. Burrow proved he’s good. He didn’t prove to be Watson good but who would’ve looked that good with Bobby Hart blocking

(01-22-2021, 11:08 AM)Housh Wrote: Not right now. Burrow proved he’s good. He didn’t prove to be Watson good but who would’ve looked that good with Bobby Hart blocking

i think the texans had a worse line than us and Watson just had a top 5 season could be wrong didnt see many texan games

(01-22-2021, 11:08 AM)Housh Wrote: Not right now. Burrow proved he’s good. He didn’t prove to be Watson good but who would’ve looked that good with Bobby Hart blocking

(01-22-2021, 11:13 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: i think the texans had a worse line than us and Watson just had a top 5 season could be wrong didnt see many texan games

As I said: Watson would love to have our oline. Must likely our receivers and runners as well.

(01-22-2021, 02:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said: Watson would love to have our oline. Must likely our receivers and runners as well.

Lmfao

Listen, yea, they have a bad line. But it's not 2019-2020 cincy bad.

(01-22-2021, 03:30 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Lmfao

Listen, yea, they have a bad line. But it's not 2019-2020 cincy bad.

Yeah, made me laugh a little myself.

(01-22-2021, 03:30 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Lmfao

Listen, yea, they have a bad line. But it's not 2019-2020 cincy bad.

Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote:Yeah, made me laugh a little myself.

What's so funny?

DW was sack once every 11.1 pass attempts last year, with the pocket awareness of a 5 year pro

JB, was sacked once every 12.6 pass attempts last year, with the pocket awareness of a rookie.

(01-22-2021, 04:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What's so funny?

DW was sack once every 11.1 pass attempts last year, with the pocket awareness of a 5 year pro

JB, was sacked once every 12.6 pass attempts last year, with the pocket awareness of a rookie.

And yet DW survived...

Sacks don't tell the whole story Fred.

(01-18-2021, 09:17 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: That’s putting it mildly. Lol

It’s also funny to me to see him pimping Watson now. When some of us where saying how classy Watson was to reach out to Burrow after his injury I remember old Essex thought Watson seemed like a “jerk” (weird take I know).

Just you don;t understand sarcasm... obviously when I posted that.... ... and i understand  your cult following of Burrow make it impossible to actually accept this debate that people actually might pick Waston over Burrow.

(01-22-2021, 04:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: And yet DW survived...

Sacks don't tell the whole story Fred.

First off: No need to get snippy and personal

Secondly: DW didn't survive his rookie year; he tore his ACL after getting sacked once in every 10.7 passing attempts. it's why i referenced the pocket awareness of a rookie against a 5 year vet.

(01-22-2021, 04:49 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Just you don;t understand sarcasm... obviously when I posted that.... ... and i understand  your cult following of Burrow make it impossible to actually accept this debate that people actually might pick Waston over Burrow.

Why would you sarcastically call him a jerk?

Do you mean tongue-in-cheek?

(01-22-2021, 05:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: First off: No need to get snippy and personal

Secondly: DW didn't survive his rookie year; he tore his ACL after getting sacked once in every 10.7 passing attempts. it's why i referenced the pocket awareness of a rookie against a 5 year vet.

Sorry man, that was a bit rough lol

Both are bad O-lines agree on that Bfine. Again, sorry for calling you Fred.

(01-22-2021, 04:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What's so funny?

DW was sack once every 11.1 pass attempts last year, with the pocket awareness of a 5 year pro

JB, was sacked once every 12.6 pass attempts last year, with the pocket awareness of a rookie.

lmfao this is a stupid argument. 

Justin Herbert has the pocket awareness of a rookie. Marcus Mariota has the pocket awareness of a 5+ year vet