(02-04-2021, 04:05 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: According to PFF he led all EDGE players in pressures this season...

This is where the interesting discourse starts, though. Many people believe Barrett’s play has fallen off. After all, he went from 19.5 sacks during the 2019 regular season to just 8.0 in 2020. However, we know better than this — pressures predict sacks better than sacks predict sacks, and Barrett’s pressure numbers in 2020 have been on par with his 2019 totals, leading all edge players in quarterback pressures during the regular season (77).

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-shaquil-barrett-tampa-bay-buccaneers-franchise-tag-contrast-2021-offseason

According to Pro Football Reference, Barrett had 42 total pressures in 2020 (24 hurries, 10 knockdowns, 8 sacks).
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BarrSh00.htm

Lawson had 44 on the same site. 11 hurries, 27 knockdowns, 5.5 sacks.

Both were near the top of the league in total pressures.

(02-04-2021, 09:20 AM)Sled21 Wrote: He wasn't even a starter at the time......

The point is, he was in for a visit and the Bengals could have signed him for a very affordable contract and possibly been the beneficiaries of that production.

If not for the fact they thought he had a shoulder injury. When he says he didn't. 

(02-04-2021, 05:23 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The point is, he was in for a visit and the Bengals could have signed him for a very affordable contract and possibly been the beneficiaries of that production.

If not for the fact they thought he had a shoulder injury. When he says he didn't. 

Whos to say with the Scheme and coaches we had the last two years he would have been used productively.. Our DL wasnt

(02-04-2021, 05:46 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Whos to say with the Scheme and coaches we had the last two years he would have been used productively.. Our DL wasnt

Exactly. That's why i included "possibly". 

There is one stone cold fact though. He didn't come here so the Bengals definitely didn't benefit in any way. 

(02-04-2021, 09:23 AM)Sled21 Wrote: The fact that only 2 teams, Cincinnati and Dallas, even have their own MRI machines.... yeah, budgetville. 

Yeah, Budgetville. Bought a machine and didn't bother getting staff that know how to use it. Usual Bungle halfassery.

(02-04-2021, 04:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: According to Pro Football Reference, Barrett had 42 total pressures in 2020 (24 hurries, 10 knockdowns, 8 sacks).
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BarrSh00.htm

Lawson had 44 on the same site. 11 hurries, 27 knockdowns, 5.5 sacks.

Both were near the top of the league in total pressures.

So where is PFF getting 77? That’s quite a discrepancy.

So we're saying

We didn't want him anyway
The scheme MIGHT not fit
The coaches are too inept to use him correctly
Not enough teams announced a desire to sign him

As justification for not signing him.

Why bother signing or drafting anyone? After all, they might not work out...

Sounds to me they missed an opportunity to add a lot of sacks/pressure on defense the past two years for a bargain of a price.

Their player evaluation was poor in this situation. Other posters are pointing out that the rest of the NFL missed on Shaq as well. This is true. But our team had a shot at making every other team look bad, and ended up looking bad by making the wrong judgement. It's not about how you are perceived though, it's about results (we don't have those either).

This organization gives fans plenty of reason to be frustrated. It's only natural for fans to be frustrated.

(02-04-2021, 09:43 PM)SladeX Wrote: So we're saying

We didn't want him anyway
The scheme MIGHT not fit
The coaches are too inept to use him correctly
Not enough teams announced a desire to sign him

As justification for not signing him.

Why bother signing or drafting anyone? After all, they might not work out...

No, we're saying hindsight is 20/20. Everybody take off their rear view mirrors and answer this question honestly.

Going into the 2018 season Mikey asks you:

Hey, we can hire a back up DE that went undrafted and really has not proven anything in the NFL, and has amassed 14 sacks in his 4 seasons in Denver.

or

We can sign the reigning NFL tackles leader, who was a former 3rd RD draft choice and has averaged over 100 tackles per year in his 4 years as a starter in the NFL.

(02-04-2021, 10:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No, we're saying hindsight is 20/20. Everybody take off their rear view mirrors and answer this question honestly.

Going into the 2018 season Mikey asks you:

Hey, we can hire a back up DE that went undrafted and really has not proven anything in the NFL, and has amassed 14 sacks in his 4 seasons in Denver.

or

We can sign the reigning NFL tackles leader, who was a former 3rd RD draft choice and has averaged over 100 tackles per year in his 4 years as a starter in the NFL.

I’d have told Mike to sign both. We’re not talking about big contracts here.

(02-04-2021, 10:20 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’d have told Mike to sign both. We’re not talking about big contracts here.

Nope, he said "or". Which one you take?

Keep in mind we're coming off a season where we were 11th in the NFL in sacks and Rookie Carl Lawson was coming off a 8.5 sack season

(02-04-2021, 10:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope, he said "or". Which one you take?

Keep in mind we're coming off a season where we were 11th in the NFL in sacks and Rookie Carl Lawson was coming off a 8.5 sack season

I’d call him a cheapskate and storm out.

It is admirable how much bfred cares about Mike’s money though.

(02-04-2021, 10:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No, we're saying hindsight is 20/20. Everybody take off their rear view mirrors and answer this question honestly.

Going into the 2018 season Mikey asks you:

Hey, we can hire a back up DE that went undrafted and really has not proven anything in the NFL, and has amassed 14 sacks in his 4 seasons in Denver.

or

We can sign the reigning NFL tackles leader, who was a former 3rd RD draft choice and has averaged over 100 tackles per year in his 4 years as a starter in the NFL.

(02-04-2021, 10:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It is admirable how much bfred cares about Mike’s money though.

I knew it was a big ask. 

Anyone else feel like they got Shaq's MRI switched with Jonah's before the 2019 season? I would laugh but... ok I've had too much bourbon I'm laughing anyway 

(02-04-2021, 10:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I knew it was a big ask. 

So’s expecting the biggest homers to just admit the team messed up, apparently.

(02-04-2021, 09:31 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: So where is PFF getting 77? That’s quite a discrepancy.

I have no idea.

(02-03-2021, 09:43 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: All Bengals the last 2 years: 48 sacks (last in NFL)
Shaq Barrett the last 2 years: 27.5 sacks

Ouch!

(02-04-2021, 10:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No, we're saying hindsight is 20/20. Everybody take off their rear view mirrors and answer this question honestly.

Going into the 2018 season Mikey asks you:

Hey, we can hire a back up DE that went undrafted and really has not proven anything in the NFL, and has amassed 14 sacks in his 4 seasons in Denver.

or

We can sign the reigning NFL tackles leader, who was a former 3rd RD draft choice and has averaged over 100 tackles per year in his 4 years as a starter in the NFL.

I get both sides of it.

If you are wrong in hindsight it means you lack foresight. An NFL FO's job is to have the foresight to select the right coaches, staff, players, etc. In this case, the Bengals were wrong.... as were most of the other teams who passed on him.

Personally, I'm not dinging the Bengals for not signing the guy (especially after last offseason where they went all in and did well - on paper). It happens. Maybe he isn't being 100% honest with the shoulder thing? Maybe he was never told it could be an issue? Who knows? I'm just not going to flip out over a missed signing 2 years later.

If someone's going to be an angry fan, be angry that they F'd up the McCarron trade, F'd up not trading Dalton, franchise tagged and/or didn't trade AJ Green, ...... messed up the paperwork on the Shaun Rogers trade, etc. etc.

^ THAT stuff is procedural, good at your job stuff.

(02-05-2021, 11:24 AM)PDub80 Wrote: I get both sides of it.

If you are wrong in hindsight it means you lack foresight. An NFL FO's job is to have the foresight to select the right coaches, staff, players, etc. In this case, the Bengals were wrong.... as were most of the other teams who passed on him.

Personally, I'm not dinging the Bengals for not signing the guy (especially after last offseason where they went all in and did well - on paper). It happens. Maybe he isn't being 100% honest with the shoulder thing? Maybe he was never told it could be an issue? Who knows? I'm just not going to flip out over a missed signing 2 years later.

If someone's going to be an angry fan, be angry that they F'd up the McCarron trade, F'd up not trading Dalton, franchise tagged and/or didn't trade AJ Green, ...... messed up the paperwork on the Shaun Rogers trade, etc. etc.

^ THAT stuff is procedural, good at your job stuff.

Pretty sure the browns messed up the McCarron trade.   ton of missed oppertunities to do small things that could have changed things over the years.