Sitting out a year and Odell comps. I really don’t think he is. That’s why I say may.

(02-08-2021, 02:40 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Sitting out a year and Odell comps. I really don’t think he is. That’s why I say may.

What Odell comps?

And isn’t sitting out kind of the opposite of being a diva? Diva WR’s live for attention. And Chase certainly didn’t get much attention not playing.

(02-08-2021, 02:45 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: What Odell comps?

And isn’t sitting out kind of the opposite of being a diva? Diva WR’s live for attention. And Chase certainly didn’t get much attention not playing.

I’ve seen him compared to Odell in a few different places. All about his football talent though not about his attitude.

Good point. But I consider divas to be selfish too. Sitting out seems kind of selfish.

Guys have huge years fairly often in college and come back to earth in other years. I’m weary of all the guys that had monster years and were considered highly rated then opted out. I totally understand why they would do it. Doesn’t mean I have to like it.

The draft is always a crap shoot. This year with a shortened season opt outs and less evaluation time I feel like the unknowns are so much bigger. I’m all in on hoping for a trade back. Preferably picking up early picks in next years draft. Of course this might be the year we kill it in the draft since we don’t get to do our normal evaluations and screw it up.

If guys have the same grade and one played this year and the other didn’t. I’m going with the one who played.

1. Sewell (upside too good, outweighs risk)
2. Chase (rapport with Burrow being my tiebreaker over Smith)
3. Pitts (Bold pick but one that creates mismatches vs LBs & Ss & tougher decisions for defensive personnel)

Very close choices for me so interviews, background checks and trusted sources' opinions around the schools would be really important.

I am a Smith fan though and not as concerned about durability. He looks flexible as hell. Helps avoid knee and ankle injuries as much as anything. Has he had soft tissue or knee problems that I'm missing?

1. Sewell
2. Parsons
3. Chase

(02-08-2021, 03:45 AM)Bmore Birds Wrote: 1. Sewell (upside too good, outweighs risk)
2. Chase (rapport with Burrow being my tiebreaker over Smith)
3. Pitts (Bold pick but one that creates mismatches vs LBs & Ss & tougher decisions for defensive personnel)

Very close choices for me so interviews, background checks and trusted sources' opinions around the schools would be really important.

I am a Smith fan though and not as concerned about durability. He looks flexible as hell. Helps avoid knee and ankle injuries as much as anything. Has he had soft tissue or knee problems that I'm missing?

I don't dislike Smith. He may well have a long successful career. But his size does scare me at the NFL level and I wouldn't risk a #5 pick on him.

(02-09-2021, 02:03 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I don't dislike Smith. He may well have a long successful career. But his size does scare me at the NFL level and I wouldn't risk a #5 pick on him.

Pretty much where I am with him. He’ll probably be a fun player to watch, but I think most of us still have PTSD from the Ross pick. And he actually has like 20 lbs on Smith...

Honestly, I can't really rank in terms of 1,2,3, but I will categorize as 1A, 1B, and 1C. I think they are that close and really comes down to need and fit.

1A: Penei Sewell, OT Oregon
1B: JaMarr Chase, WR LSU
1C: Kyle Pitts, TE Florida

(02-08-2021, 03:00 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I’ve seen him compared to Odell in a few different places. All about his football talent though not about his attitude.

Good point. But I consider divas to be selfish too. Sitting out seems kind of selfish.

Guys have huge years fairly often in college and come back to earth in other years. I’m weary of all the guys that had monster years and were considered highly rated then opted out. I totally understand why they would do it. Doesn’t mean I have to like it.

The draft is always a crap shoot. This year with a shortened season opt outs and less evaluation time I feel like the unknowns are so much bigger. I’m all in on hoping for a trade back. Preferably picking up early picks in next years draft. Of course this might be the year we kill it in the draft since we don’t get to do our normal evaluations and screw it up.

If guys have the same grade and one played this year and the other didn’t. I’m going with the one who played.

A lot of the likely early 1st round guys opted out. Do they all get labeled as selfish? If so, how far should they drop because of it?

Sewell
Chase
Parsons
Slater
Rousseau
Farley

If you are of the mindset that you're going to college to put you in a better position for job opportunities, it can easily be argued that the above guys have already done enough to put themselves in that position and don't need to jeopardize their careers with a potentially career-impacting health risk.

One thing I will agree with you on is that I do prefer to see 2+ years of elite production to feel confident in a Top 10 pick, but it is what it is. There was concern about Burrow too last year because he was only elite one year, but people seem to be happy with him after his rookie year.
As you said, the draft is always going to have some level of a "crap shoot." You'll never be able to guarantee 100% if a player will have a long, productive career in the NFL or not.

(02-09-2021, 02:54 PM)ochocincos Wrote: A lot of the likely early 1st round guys opted out. Do they all get labeled as selfish? If so, how far should they drop because of it?

Sewell
Chase
Parsons
Slater
Rousseau
Farley

If you are of the mindset that you're going to college to put you in a better position for job opportunities, it can easily be argued that the above guys have already done enough to put themselves in that position and don't need to jeopardize their careers with a potentially career-impacting health risk.

One thing I will agree with you on is that I do prefer to see 2+ years of elite production to feel confident in a Top 10 pick, but it is what it is. There was concern about Burrow too last year because he was only elite one year, but people seem to be happy with him after his rookie year.
As you said, the draft is always going to have some level of a "crap shoot." You'll never be able to guarantee 100% if a player will have a long, productive career in the NFL or not.

Pretty much. I would be perfectly fine if we didn’t draft any guys who didn’t play football last year.

I really like a lot of them as players. But I think one of the things Zac and co look for is does the guy really love the game. Anyone who voluntarily said no thanks I’m not playing probably has an asterisk next to their name.

(02-09-2021, 02:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Pretty much where I am with him. He’ll probably be a fun player to watch, but I think most of us still have PTSD from the Ross pick. And he actually has like 20 lbs on Smith...

Very understandable especially from the both organization and fans' perspective. I just think a guy like Ross, with bulked up quads (too bulky), is a completely different injury risk than Smith. 15 years ago Smith's body type would scare me but not with today's rules. Still believe Burrow to Chase is the best way to go if he's there.

(02-09-2021, 08:13 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Pretty much. I would be perfectly fine if we didn’t draft any guys who didn’t play football last year.

I really like a lot of them as players. But I think one of the things Zac and co look for is does the guy really love the game. Anyone who voluntarily said no thanks I’m not playing probably has an asterisk next to their name.

So then if you're basically bumping all of Sewell, Chase, Farley, Rousseau, Slater, and Parsons down, what does your Top 10 non-QB list look like?
Because based on what you said, none of those guys should be in your Top 10.

Maybe they love football so much they were terrified of catching something that literally no one understands the long term effects of (especially the respiratory issues). And they want to play the game they love for as long as possible.

Or maybe they’re just all selfish divas who don’t care about their teammates or the sport...

Guess that’s up to each individual GM/HC to decide for themselves.

(02-09-2021, 10:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: So then if you're basically bumping all of Sewell, Chase, Farley, Rousseau, Slater, and Parsons down, what does your Top 10 non-QB list look like?
Because based on what you said, none of those guys should be in your Top 10.

Why don't QBs get to be in the Top 10? 

But:

Smith
Surtain
Pitts
Paye
Darrisaw
Waddle
Phillips
Nixon
Collins
Toney

For us?

1. Sewell
2. Slater
3. Pitts

I go back and forth on this, but after watching New Stripe City's breakdown of Chase, I'm not that enamored of him. I'm actually more impressed with Terrace Marshall. Going into the 2019 season, Marshall was LSU's #1 WR, and he was leading the team in TDs and, I think, yardage, before his injury. It was only after his injury that Chase took over that role as the #1 guy.

We should have 2 priorities in free agency and the draft:

1. Pass Protection & Run Blocking
2. Pass Rush

Even taking Pitts would be luxury pick that will only be made possible if we

1. Re-sign Jackson & Lawson
2. Sign a FA pass rusher
3. Sign at least one FA Olineman who'd be a quality starter

That's why I put Sewell and Slater at 1 & 2.

(02-09-2021, 11:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why don't QBs get to be in the Top 10? 

But:

Smith
Surtain
Pitts
Paye
Darrisaw
Waddle
Phillips
Nixon
Collins
Toney

No QBs because the point of the thread was to pick non-QBs.

Also, your list feels like an awful reach for some of those guys just to not pick someone who opted out. Would you really take all of those 10 before you would take a single guy who opted out? Or just listing Top 10 if none of the guys who opted out were actually in the draft?

(02-09-2021, 10:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: So then if you're basically bumping all of Sewell, Chase, Farley, Rousseau, Slater, and Parsons down, what does your Top 10 non-QB list look like?
Because based on what you said, none of those guys should be in your Top 10.

It would take me too long to think about an answer

(02-10-2021, 04:13 AM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: For us?

1. Sewell
2. Slater
3. Pitts

I go back and forth on this, but after watching New Stripe City's breakdown of Chase, I'm not that enamored of him. I'm actually more impressed with Terrace Marshall. Going into the 2019 season, Marshall was LSU's #1 WR, and he was leading the team in TDs and, I think, yardage, before his injury. It was only after his injury that Chase took over that role as the #1 guy.

We should have 2 priorities in free agency and the draft:

1. Pass Protection & Run Blocking
2. Pass Rush

Even taking Pitts would be luxury pick that will only be made possible if we

1. Re-sign Jackson & Lawson
2. Sign a FA pass rusher
3. Sign at least one FA Olineman who'd be a quality starter

That's why I put Sewell and Slater at 1 & 2.

Marshall played 12 games in 2019 with Chase and Jefferson.
That's only 2 games missed from Chase and 3 less than Jefferson.


At the time Marshall missed his first game that year, here were his stats compared to Chase and Jefferson.
Marshall (4 games) - 304 yards, 6 TDs
Chase (3 games) - 397 yards, 5 TDs
Jefferson (4 games) - 392 yards, 5 TDs

So Marshall was actually the third receiver in terms of yardage by the time he got injured in 2019.

(02-10-2021, 11:20 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Marshall played 12 games in 2019 with Chase and Jefferson.
That's only 2 games missed from Chase and 3 less than Jefferson.


At the time Marshall missed his first game that year, here were his stats compared to Chase and Jefferson.
Marshall (4 games) - 304 yards, 6 TDs
Chase (3 games) - 397 yards, 5 TDs
Jefferson (4 games) - 392 yards, 5 TDs

So Marshall was actually the third receiver in terms of yardage by the time he got injured in 2019.

Thanks for that clarification. I was working from memory of something I heard Burrow say before the draft last year.  :andy:

I 

(02-10-2021, 11:01 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: It would take me too long to think about an answer

Well how about just your top 5? Include Lawrence & everybody else. Since the Bengals pick 5th and in this scenario can't trade back, how would you set the top of your board? 

It doesn't have to be a final answer or anything just getting a feel where everybody's at right now. Weighing the opt outs more heavily definitely complicates it. I'm assuming Lawrence should be number one on all boards. No team should pass on him because his value atm is more than the just having the first pick.