(02-22-2021, 12:08 AM)jason Wrote: ^^^^

I have a gut feeling that we're gonna be on this guy like we were Dre Kirkpatrick. I remember reading Vikings fans posting that they couldn't believe we have him that contract... They were also upset that we got Alexander, who I really wanna keep, but don't know that we will.

Yeah, keep Mackenzie, would be fine with trading Waynes and that contract even if it is front loaded.

(02-22-2021, 12:03 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I know it wouldn't happen anyway but that is the way I was looking at it. 

Mixon is getting paid way too much for this to happen, just saying that Gio played very well last year in his absence and to get 
paid as much as Mixon is he needs to stay healthy and contribute. Boyd stays healthy and contributes, very valuable player to us.


Well yeah, we overpaid Mixon but that doesn't mean he isn't a very good to great RB who still has great upside.

Was just saying that I don't want to trade Boyd at all.


True.

Sad, but true.


Yep. Gotta keep the young good proven players and replace the bad ones or coach them up. Simple as that.

I hate Mixon's contract too, and I've come around to the notion that you don't pay a RB... Like ever. Run them into the ground for 3-4 years and groom his replacement along the way.

But you're right, and Gio is finally at about that 30 year old cliff too... I can't believe he's just now getting there. He must've been 19 or 20 when we drafted him.

We're paper thin, and can't afford to trade anybody of any value.

(02-22-2021, 12:12 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: They were also extremely down on Xavier Rhodes up there, and he was great this year, so who knows. We’ll see.

Yeah... I mean (hate to use Zac Taylor speak) we have to see what we have in the guy, but damn if I'm not overly impressed with his resume. I hope he lights it up here, and Lou's secondary players have performed pretty well; so who knows? Waynes is pretty much the reason I'm not gung-ho about re-upping Jackson. Bates HAS to be retained, and how much money can a team use up on it's secondary?

Bobby Hart. Hated by many on here although seemed to play better last year. Draft Sewell and move Jonah to RT. You have Adeniji as backup.

[quote='TJHoushmandzadeh' pid='992920' dateline='1613953890']

If RBs are not hard to find why would a team give us a nice return for one who'll cost $30m+ over the next 3 years?
[/quote


What Nate said

(02-22-2021, 12:27 AM)thompson19osu Wrote: Bobby Hart. Hated by many on here although seemed to play better last year. Draft Sewell and move Jonah to RT. You have Adeniji as backup.

You couldn't squeeze a 7th round pick out of team whose GM was Corky from Life Goes On for Bobby Hart.

(02-21-2021, 11:23 PM)Destro Wrote: Zach Taylor for a kicking tee.

no one is willing to give up a kicking tee.

(02-22-2021, 01:45 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You couldn't squeeze a 7th round pick out of team whose GM was Corky from Life Goes On for Bobby Hart.

I honestly think you would be surprised.

(02-22-2021, 05:54 PM)thompson19osu Wrote: I honestly think you would be surprised.

Yeah, Hart isn't as bad as people think. He might fetch a 6th rounder for all we know. 

He is a good run blocker, bad pass blocker.

But I think teams would rather just wait for us to cut him. Especially say if we get Sewell at 5.

Reader no weapons on offensive side would get traded.

(02-22-2021, 07:17 PM)Mark123 Wrote: Reader no weapons on offensive side would get traded.

If we traded Reader we would have no good DT's at all unless Geno just somehow became his younger self again...

(02-22-2021, 12:12 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, keep Mackenzie, would be fine with trading Waynes and that contract even if it is front loaded.

The thing I hate about Waynes is now it is almost impossible to afford WJIII when they paid Waynes that much and he was (Cough, choke, cough) injured "working out" the first time he stepped foot in our gym.  Still amazes me that the same doctors that failed Barrett cleared him.

It would look like a slap to WJIII, who outplayed Waynes statistically.  But he is going to be 28.  I hate this scenario, because it could really screw up the draft.  

I was initially very opposed to using the franchise tag on either him or Lawson, but if you are able to sing Lawson, maybe you do FT WJIII as a one-year deal is likely to get the most out of him and if Waynes doesn't work out, you release him and shift those funds to WJIII, but then you are drafting a CB high next year.  

(02-21-2021, 09:56 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I'm not advocating this, because, let's be honest, the Bengals NEED proven NFL talent. I don't see them trading strong players. But, if I were GM and I absolutely HAD to...

Jessie Bates would possibly yield a 1st rounder at a position where the Bengals have a bit of depth. Better yet, maybe Bates for a 2nd & 3rd or another team's starter and a 3rd.

Bates will be commanding a massive contract extension after next season, I believe. To flip that into a 1st, multiple picks, or a player and a pick might be interesting. I would listen fir sure.

Of course they would have to keep Wilson around and find safety depth via FA or draft. But, that would be my shocker trade.

I know you aren't advocating this but Bates for a player and a third or Bates for a second and a third would be truly horrific.

Nobody is giving up a quality O-lineman in a trade for a player - you might at best get a serviceable one or a formerly good one that they want to get rid of (Cordy Glenn MKII) and in case you've forgotten the Bengals last fifteen (15!) 3rd round picks:

Logan Wilson
Germaine Pratt
Sam Hubbard
Malik Jefferson
Jordan Willis
Nick Vigil
Paul Dawson
Tyler Kroft
Will Clarke
Shawn Williams
Brandon Thompson
Mo Sanu
Dontay Moch
Brandon Ghee
Jordan Shipley

You'd want to give up Bates for a 2nd round pick/player they want to bin and a 1 in 5 chance of getting a Hubbard/S Williams/Sanu type player if it pans out?

And the Bengals have zero depth at safety. Other than Bates there is Bell and that's it for safeties under contract.

Bates is ridiculously cheap (even with the performance enhanced pay) in 2021 and the franchise tag for safeties is very affordable ($11m this year) so you could just tag him in 2022 if you can't work out a deal.

To even start conversations the starting point would have to be a first round pick and then something extra. Otherwise this just doesn't make sense from the Bengals' perspective.

(02-23-2021, 12:36 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: I know you aren't advocating this but Bates for a player and a third or Bates for a second and a third would be truly horrific.

Nobody is giving up a quality O-lineman in a trade for a player - you might at best get a serviceable one or a formerly good one that they want to get rid of (Cordy Glenn MKII) and in case you've forgotten the Bengals last fifteen (15!) 3rd round picks:

Logan Wilson
Germaine Pratt
Sam Hubbard
Malik Jefferson
Jordan Willis
Nick Vigil
Paul Dawson
Tyler Kroft
Will Clarke
Shawn Williams
Brandon Thompson
Mo Sanu
Dontay Moch
Brandon Ghee
Jordan Shipley

You'd want to give up Bates for a 2nd round pick/player they want to bin and a 1 in 5 chance of getting a Hubbard/S Williams/Sanu type player if it pans out?

And the Bengals have zero depth at safety. Other than Bates there is Bell and that's it for safeties under contract.

Bates is ridiculously cheap (even with the performance enhanced pay) in 2021 and the franchise tag for safeties is very affordable ($11m this year) so you could just tag him in 2022 if you can't work out a deal.

To even start conversations the starting point would have to be a first round pick and then something extra. Otherwise this just doesn't make sense from the Bengals' perspective.

LOVE the conversation!

Bates has had one amazing year, one good year, and one so so year. After this season, he will be due an absolute MASSIVE deal. I'm not sure that's a great investment at this point.

I also 100% see the need to add S to the roster. The trade only works if Williams and Wilson come back and another guy is added back there for depth.

My thoughts on the trade came down to....

- Trading him for a cheaper (keeping the Bates upcoming extension in mind here) first rounder AND keeping that money free'd up for a player at more of an immediate, impacting spot may be attractive.

- Trading him for a 2nd and a 3rd might be interesting. Even thought the Bengals 3rd round history isn't incredible, I can't subscribe to the Bengals just physically being unable to draft 3rd rounders.

Plus, this draft is DEEP at O-Line, D-Line, and WR. 2nd & 3rd rounders could yield potential starters at those spots given the talent this year.

- A 2nd & a starter or a 3rd & a starter wouldn't be horrible, either, depending on the player and draft position.

While Bates had an a amazing 2020 season, I'm not in the came that that's repeatable for him. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. His season by season performances have been all over the place. Anyway, I just thought I would have some fun thinking wayyyy outside the box.

Let's be honest, the Bengals need elite talent all over the field. Lawson, Hubbard, & Bates look to be the 3 on D and 1 of them is leaving. Not sure jettisoning another one would be ideal!

(02-23-2021, 02:27 PM)PDub80 Wrote: LOVE the conversation!

Bates has had one amazing year, one good year, and one so so year. After this season, he will be due an absolute MASSIVE deal. I'm not sure that's a great investment at this point.

I also 100% see the need to add S to the roster. The trade only works if Williams and Wilson come back and another guy is added back there for depth.

My thoughts on the trade came down to....

- Trading him for a cheaper (keeping the Bates upcoming extension in mind here) first rounder AND keeping that money free'd up for a player at more of an immediate, impacting spot may be attractive.

- Trading him for a 2nd and a 3rd might be interesting. Even thought the Bengals 3rd round history isn't incredible, I can't subscribe to the Bengals just physically being unable to draft 3rd rounders.

Plus, this draft is DEEP at O-Line, D-Line, and WR. 2nd & 3rd rounders could yield potential starters at those spots given the talent this year.

- A 2nd & a starter or a 3rd & a starter wouldn't be horrible, either, depending on the player and draft position.

While Bates had an a amazing 2020 season, I'm not in the came that that's repeatable for him. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. His season by season performances have been all over the place. Anyway, I just thought I would have some fun thinking wayyyy outside the box.

Let's be honest, the Bengals need elite talent all over the field. Lawson, Hubbard, & Bates look to be the 3 on D and 1 of them is leaving. Not sure jettisoning another one would be ideal!

The Bengals actually have plenty of cap space in 2022 (and 2023) to pay him. That really shouldn't be cause to trade him.

Now if you decide that you've got too many holes then maybe there's an argument for selling high on Bates. But a second and a third would be a paltry return. A first and a second or maybe three seconds and I could see giving the Bengals enough draft capital to fix multiple holes but once you get down to the third round the odds (not just for the Bengals but for the rest of the NFL) are that they are more likely to bust than become a starter. Now I get that teams probably aren't going to offer that much but the Bengals don't need to trade Bates and should only do it if they receive an offer too good to refuse. 

I'm not saying Bates would command the trade compensation that Jamal Adams did last year, but I don't think they'd be miles apart either.

The Jets sent: Jamal Adams and a 4th round pick.

The Jets receieved: 1st round pick 2021, 1st round pick 2022, 3rd round pick 2021, and Seattle's starting safety Bradley McDougal

For Bates, I'd want at minimum: A 1st and a legitmately good player we can plug in and start somewhere, or a 1st and a 3rd.

Fwiw, Jamal Adams was in a very similar situation as Bates currently is. Going into 4th year, still on a rookie contract. No long term deal on place. In fact, Seattle still hasn't signed him to an extension. He's playing on a 5th year optiion and is due to become a FA in 2022 if something doesn't get done.

Note: I don't want to trade Bates, but I'm just trying to paint a picture of what I think his market may look like.

Gio Benard...

(02-23-2021, 09:41 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The thing I hate about Waynes is now it is almost impossible to afford WJIII when they paid Waynes that much and he was (Cough, choke, cough) injured "working out" the first time he stepped foot in our gym.  Still amazes me that the same doctors that failed Barrett cleared him.

It would look like a slap to WJIII, who outplayed Waynes statistically.  But he is going to be 28.  I hate this scenario, because it could really screw up the draft.  

I was initially very opposed to using the franchise tag on either him or Lawson, but if you are able to sing Lawson, maybe you do FT WJIII as a one-year deal is likely to get the most out of him and if Waynes doesn't work out, you release him and shift those funds to WJIII, but then you are drafting a CB high next year.  

It did put us in a tough position when Waynes went down for the year after we agreed to pay him that much. I like your idea, extend
Lawson, put the tag on WJ3 and if Waynes doesn't play well or gets injured again you cut him and pay WJ3.

Would rather be drafting CB high next year rather than this year out of necessity. We need to take Sewell if he is there this year.

(02-23-2021, 04:54 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I'm not saying Bates would command the trade compensation that Jamal Adams did last year, but I don't think they'd be miles apart either.

The Jets sent: Jamal Adams and a 4th round pick.

The Jets receieved: 1st round pick 2021, 1st round pick 2022, 3rd round pick 2021, and Seattle's starting safety Bradley McDougal

For Bates, I'd want at minimum: A 1st and a legitmately good player we can plug in and start somewhere, or a 1st and a 3rd.  

Fwiw, Jamal Adams was in a very similar situation as Bates currently is.  Going into 4th year, still on a rookie contract.  No long term deal on place.  In fact, Seattle still hasn't signed him to an extension.  He's playing on a 5th year optiion and is due to become a FA in 2022 if something doesn't get done.

Note: I don't want to trade Bates, but I'm just trying to paint a picture of what I think his market may look like.

Yeah, I don't want to trade Bates at all but it would have to be something like that...

(02-23-2021, 05:40 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Gio Benard...

Actually might be the best idea of all. Just had a good year while Mixon was out and is great at picking up the blitz. Gio is getting
paid very well for a backup RB and this would be a much better option than simply cutting him to free up cap space.