(11-03-2015, 02:48 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Nice hyperbole and strawman fred. Good job. You're a winner buddy.

Coach fred: "Hey go try and attack a much better athlete than you in space when he has the advantage of seeing the ball carrier behind you. Good luck, you're on your own"

Andre did it right. You are completely illiterate on the nuance of the block and disregarding the context of the play, not surprising since for a solid hour you couldn't differentiate between that play and 2 others. 

Wow another post where you claim you are right just because you say you are right.

Again, no o-line coach would tell a player to just stand still and not even try to block a guy when he is chasing the QB.  If you think that is how it works then you don't have a clue. 

(11-03-2015, 04:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Wow another post where you claim you are right just because you say you are right.

Again, no o-line coach would tell a player to just stand still and not even try to block a guy when he is chasing the QB.  If you think that is how it works then you don't have a clue. 

I never suggested any of that, but again, good strawmanning fred. It suits you.
No OL coach would tell their OT to go chase an OLB in space BEHIND THE POCKET. 

Your issue is your refusal to give any credence to the athleticism of Dupree and the fact that if others didn't force the QB from the pocket, Dupree is eliminated from the play. It really had nothing to do with Andre Smith. 

(11-03-2015, 04:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Wow another post where you claim you are right just because you say you are right.

Again, no o-line coach would tell a player to just stand still and not even try to block a guy when he is chasing the QB.  If you think that is how it works then you don't have a clue. 

I think it's absolutely hilarious you are claiming I'm right just because I say I'm right, while you have given absolutely no analysis or objective evidence other than your (bogus) opinion while I have broken down the actual play to explain why Smith was right, you just throw your hands in the air like a little child and scream "I DON'T CARE!"

(11-03-2015, 04:14 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I think it's absolutely hilarious you are claiming I'm right just because I say I'm right, while you have given absolutely no analysis or objective evidence other than your (bogus) opinion while I have broken down the actual play to explain why Smith was right, you just throw your hands in the air like a little child and scream "I DON'T CARE!"

I broke it down also.

I clearly explained that blockers are trained to read the defender to determine when the QB is flushed from the pocket.  I am never one to make the claim that i know what i am talking about because I played the game, but when I clearly explain a point and you claim I never said anything then i begin to wonder what your problem is.

The clips you posted clearly show that Dre did not move at all from the spot.  He did not even attempt to block Dupree even though it was clear that he was taking off after a scrambling QB.    

You claim that a pass blocker just sets up to protect the pocket and then never leaves that spot.  That is just ridiculous.  QBs leave the pocket all the time and blockers continue to try and protect him.  anyone who watches foot ball knows this.

(11-03-2015, 08:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I broke it down also.

I clearly explained that blockers are trained to read the defender to determine when the QB is flushed from the pocket.  I am never one to make the claim that i know what i am talking about because I played the game, but when I clearly explain a point and you claim I never said anything then i begin to wonder what your problem is.

The clips you posted clearly show that Dre did not move at all from the spot.  He did not even attempt to block Dupree even though it was clear that he was taking off after a scrambling QB.    

You claim that a pass blocker just sets up to protect the pocket and then never leaves that spot.  That is just ridiculous.  QBs leave the pocket all the time and blockers continue to try and protect him.  anyone who watches foot ball knows this.

You didn't break down a damn thing.
You used hyperbole and baseless conjecture. 
There was 0 reason for Andre to be engaged with Dupree at that point. None. Dupree ran himself out behind the play. He just happened to be a freak athlete who could make up for it. For godssake man it was a 0 yard sack.

Few questions:
Do you think Andre knew Andy was leaving the pocket?
Did you notice how Dupree ran AWAY from Andre? 
Do you think Andre could run down Dupree?

Bodine struggled in Pass Pro Sunday; however, I don't get the 2 bad snaps slant.

If you look at the first one, Andy went on the sneak before Bodine snapped the ball. It would be next to impossible to snap the ball out of the leg of a QB that is under center. The second one was right at Andy's shoulder. looked like maybe he took his eye off the ball or was not ready.

(11-03-2015, 09:50 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Few questions:
Do you think Andre knew Andy was leaving the pocket?
Did you notice how Dupree ran AWAY from Andre? 
Do you think Andre could run down Dupree?

1.  Of course he did.  He has been trained to read the defender to know where the QB is moving.  That is basic football knowledge.

2.  Yes I noticed, but that does not mean that Dre is allowed to completely give up on the play.  Many times when QBs scramble in the pocket they move back and forth.  Dalton might have changed direction and scrambled back into the pocket.  That is why players are told that they do no just give up when they are in pass pro and the QB starts to scramble.

3.  You make it sound like Dre would have had to chase Dupree down from behind.  This is not true.  Dre was still between Dalton and Dupree and had the angle in his favor.  Dre would not have been chasing Dupree.  He would have just been trying to cut off his pursuit angle.

(11-03-2015, 11:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  Of course he did.  He has been trained to read the defender to know where the QB is moving.  That is basic football knowledge.

2.  Yes I noticed, but that does not mean that Dre is allowed to completely give up on the play.  Many times when QBs scramble in the pocket they move back and forth.  Dalton might have changed direction and scrambled back into the pocket.  That is why players are told that they do no just give up when they are in pass pro and the QB starts to scramble.

3.  You make it sound like Dre would have had to chase Dupree down from behind.  This is not true.  Dre was still between Dalton and Dupree and had the angle in his favor.  Dre would not have been chasing Dupree.  He would have just been trying to cut off his pursuit angle.

 Oh lord. Just...oh lord. 

(11-02-2015, 11:28 AM)Pezmerga Wrote: The play calling was bad. I don't understand why we didn't run the ball more.

agreed, run the rock!!!

(11-04-2015, 12:16 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote:  Oh lord. Just...oh lord. 

Exactly what I expected.

(11-03-2015, 11:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  Of course he did.  He has been trained to read the defender to know where the QB is moving.  That is basic football knowledge.

2.  Yes I noticed, but that does not mean that Dre is allowed to completely give up on the play.  Many times when QBs scramble in the pocket they move back and forth.  Dalton might have changed direction and scrambled back into the pocket.  That is why players are told that they do no just give up when they are in pass pro and the QB starts to scramble.

3.  You make it sound like Dre would have had to chase Dupree down from behind.  This is not true.  Dre was still between Dalton and Dupree and had the angle in his favor.  Dre would not have been chasing Dupree.  He would have just been trying to cut off his pursuit angle.

I have no horse in this race, but tell me this, Fred:

Whitworth pass blocked, beautifully steering his man away from the pocket and out from behind, taking him out of the play.

But then Andy ran back and to the right, where Whitworth had blocked his man, which allowed for the quick and easy sack (I thought it was Dupree but now I'm not sure who it was).

So, should 77 have continued blocking his man out of bounds or was he wrong to stand there to prevent his man from further continuing to get to Andy, even though he wasn't engaged with him anymore?

Same sitch, different player, different result.

(11-04-2015, 12:27 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I have no horse in this race, but tell me this, Fred:

Whitworth pass blocked, beautifully steering his man away from the pocket and out from behind, taking him out of the play.

But then Andy ran back and to the right, where Whitworth had blocked his man, which allowed for the quick and easy sack (I thought it was Dupree but now I'm not sure who it was).

So, should 77 have continued blocking his man out of bounds or was he wrong to stand there to prevent his man from further continuing to get to Andy, even though he wasn't engaged with him anymore?

Same sitch, different player, different result.

I'd have to see the play.  If Whit just gave the rusher a punch and then stood there and didn't try to block him anymore then that was wrong.  

(11-04-2015, 12:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I'd have to see the play.  If Whit just gave the rusher a punch and then stood there and didn't try to block him anymore then that was wrong.  

He rode him all the way out of the play at the bottom of the pocket/tackle box.

(11-04-2015, 12:21 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Exactly what I expected.

Someone tired of your nonsense? Yep. That's exactly what it is. Bye fred. You have shown a clear basic lack of understanding with blocking schemes and principles. 

(11-04-2015, 12:15 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Someone tired of your nonsense? Yep. That's exactly what it is. Bye fred. You have shown a clear basic lack of understanding with blocking schemes and principles. 

Again, exactly what I expected.

No substance.  Just your opinion.

(11-04-2015, 12:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again, exactly what I expected.

No substance.  Just your opinion.

Because when I applied substance you turn into a whiny child who was wrong about everything he posted, you made shit up the duration of this conversation. I put up with it. I proved it wrong. I'm done. 

Oh by the way, you done deflecting from Bodine (the guy who almost single-handedly subverted the offense) for the 3rd day or?

(11-04-2015, 12:22 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Because when I applied substance you turn into a whiny child who was wrong about everything he posted, you made shit up the duration of this conversation. I put up with it. I proved it wrong. I'm done. 

Oh by the way, you done deflecting from Bodine (the guy who almost single-handedly subverted the offense) for the 3rd day or?

I had to educate you about how a pass protector reads the rusher to know where the QB is going.  You had no clue about that.  You also had no clue about how a slower player can still cut off a faster player's pursuit angle. 

Basically you defended a pass protector who did not move when his man was disengaged and chasing the QB.  You claimed he didn nothing wrong by just standing there and doing nothing.

And now you have made THREE straight posts with no substance at all other than to claim you are right because you say you are right.

Reading this conversation was very amusing to say the least.

One of these guys knows a lot more than the other about offensive line play, and it's never good to argue with somebody that not only knows their shit, but isn't afraid to post screenshots, videos, and detail every single second of the play.

How is this still being debated? I love watching someone look like a fool while thinking they're "educating" the other person

(11-04-2015, 01:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I had to educate you about how a pass protector reads the rusher to know where the QB is going.  You had no clue about that.  You also had no clue about how a slower player can still cut off a faster player's pursuit angle. 

Basically you defended a pass protector who did not move when his man was disengaged and chasing the QB.  You claimed he didn nothing wrong by just standing there and doing nothing.

And now you have made THREE straight posts with no substance at all other than to claim you are right because you say you are right.

I posted a ton with evidence and you stomped your feet confused and upset. 
I'm trying to dumb it down for you.

There was no angle to cut off. You even admitted earlier, HE RAN AWAY from Andre. The angle he took to Dalton, would have been impossible for Andre to get there unless he knew Dalton left first. 

Let's try this again. 
Andre has Dupree squared away from the pocket. Dupree sees Dalton tuck. Dupree starts his run away from Andre. 


Here it is in full speed. 
https://vine.co/v/eLAj6YAMEJU

Dupree gets a half-second start. That's enough for a guy like him to beat Andre when moving AWAY from the 320 lbs man. Now you will also see Zeitler and his guy going down to the ground. BEHIND Andre. Limiting his movement further. 
But again, this is just me making shit up isn't fred? 

As for reading the defender, don't be so ridiculous. It's fairly common knowledge but also not applicable to this situation. 

When do mods start banning people who are football illiterate?