(02-24-2021, 09:52 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: There is a problem in your math.  The 8 pound butt won't be 8 pounds after cooking...

This is true...you get the point though 

Ribs are never a good deal considering the amount of bone, fat and sometimes cartilage in them. Whether pork or beef, I don't ever consider ribs a bargain food. But all of that bone and fat provides some great flavor, juiciness and tenderness, so I don't mind doing ribs on occasion. Besides that, my kids don't love them so I can generally get away with a couple of racks and that's it. And usually I'll get a few pounds of chicken wings and get them in a big saucy lump on one side (flipping them around every so often so they all get smoke, but keeping them in a pile helps them from drying out). All said and done, not that expensive (and I swear one of the best things is coming down the next morning and grabbing a cold, smoked wing out of the fridge for a snack). But if my kids were all eating a rack each I'd probably avoid ribs for the most part.

(02-25-2021, 01:19 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: Ribs are never a good deal considering the amount of bone, fat and sometimes cartilage in them. Whether pork or beef, I don't ever consider ribs a bargain food. But all of that bone and fat provides some great flavor, juiciness and tenderness, so I don't mind doing ribs on occasion. Besides that, my kids don't love them so I can generally get away with a couple of racks and that's it. And usually I'll get a few pounds of chicken wings and get them in a big saucy lump on one side (flipping them around every so often so they all get smoke, but keeping them in a pile helps them from drying out). All said and done, not that expensive (and I swear one of the best things is coming down the next morning and grabbing a cold, smoked wing out of the fridge for a snack). But if my kids were all eating a rack each I'd probably avoid ribs for the most part.

When they are BOGO then you’re looking at $7.00-8:00 a rack for back ribs, and while still not the bargain brisket and butt are, it’s at least tolerable if you are a rib fan.

(02-25-2021, 12:13 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This is true...you get the point though 

I do, but I recently did an 8 pounder and the yield was under 6 pounds.  That was why I pointed it out...

(02-25-2021, 09:31 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: I do, but I recently did an 8 pounder and the yield was under 6 pounds.  That was why I pointed it out...

Yeah - got the shoulder bone in there too which accounts for some of that weight. 

(12-18-2020, 12:29 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Here in the South, we call that Pork Shoulder a Boston Butt.  Done right, and fork pulled, you can feed a party of 12 with one of those.  If you choose the fine chop route, you can get a shit ton of sandwiches with a Boston Butt.

Man, I never come this far down the webpage, and look here..... my people!!!!  I've been smoking meat for 30+ years, used to compete, and absolutely love all that comes with tending a smoker. I use a Pitmaker Long Rifle Sniper, made in Houston. Pellet poopers won't give you the taste you will get out of a stick burner (nothing will really), but you'll get more sleep. A Pork Shoulder is actually two pieces, the Boston Butt and the Picnic Ham. I stick with the Boston Butts myself and don't really mess with the picnic.

(12-18-2020, 12:20 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I think I’d be hard pressed to know the difference in any wood right now except maybe one may leave a heavier smoke flavor than another.

I get what you say about how there are so many variables between different equipment, the meat you happen to have that day and many other things. I of course now know who Franklin is. He cooks over 100 briskets a day and there is no way they are all the same on the same day let alone day to day.

The other thing is I’m not (I don’t think) going to be a meat snob.(Probably an unfair characterization) Yes if I see a prime brisket for a ridiculous price I’m going to try it once, but for me one of the cool things about barbecue is taking the cheap parts of the animal that aren’t great and through time and technique turning them into something magnificent. If I can buy a 15 lb select brisket for $30 and make it something great then that’s an accomplishment in my book.

I love using oak for everything if I have it, and can't tell any difference between white or red or post. I love pecan for beef brisket, not so much for pork or poultry. Hickory is the standard in Kentucky, but it is easy to oversmoke with.

As far as being a meat snob looking down their noses at select briskets, every call I ever got in competition for brisket was with a select brisket. I never got a call using a Prime, and refuse to pay for Wagyu. Never discount a select, they just take a little more time at a little lower temperature to loosen up.

(02-26-2021, 12:01 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I love using oak for everything if I have it, and can't tell any difference between white or red or post. I love pecan for beef brisket, not so much for pork or poultry. Hickory is the standard in Kentucky, but it is easy to oversmoke with.

As far as being a meat snob looking down their noses at select briskets, every call I ever got in competition for brisket was with a select brisket. I never got a call using a Prime, and refuse to pay for Wagyu. Never discount a select, they just take a little more time at a little lower temperature to loosen up.

Glad you discovered the thread, Sled! 

I agree with the oak differences.  I've tried different varieties and just can't tell a difference between them.  I've loved pecan for turkey, but never used it on pork.  I really like peach on pork, with some oak.  Hickory is great at times, but I don't love it solo because of the intensity of the flavor.  

I've had choice briskets be less than awesome, and I've had prime briskets be less than awesome.  One thing I learned early on in the smoking game was how each piece of meat is completely unique.  You can use the same techniques and knowledge every time, but can't expect them all to behave exactly the same way.  Ultimately, with the right knowledge and patience, I think you can make any grade a masterpiece.  Wagyu sounds awesome, but I just can't dish out those kinds of dollars for a piece of meat I'm going to smoke all day.  

(01-15-2021, 12:18 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Does anyone do competition?  I have no desire even if I became proficient, and I doubt I ever will. But as a new person to smoking I watch a lot of videos, as you can imagine, and some of them are about how to cook for competition. And I hate them. They ruin my image of barbecue. They cut the ribs down to these perfect little McRib looking slabs, and they cut the brisket down to look like Spongebob dressing as a ghost. (Ya’ll know what I’m talking about.)  I get trimming, but this cosmetic stuff is not what I picture when I think of southerners cooking barbecue. Play the lie you’re given. That to me is what takes talent.

My son and I competed for years on the KCBS circuit, and did fairly well, won some money and some trophies. Forget competition BBQ unless you have a crap ton of money you just want to give away. Too much money ruined the sport. When we started out, you would have people coming in with pop up tents and a smoker and some coolers.(which is how we did it) My last competition the cheapest RV there was probably north of 250K.  Then you have the people bringing in whole cooking trailers with 10 man crews. Figure entry fees and meat, gas, supplies etc. and you're looking at 1000 dollars per competition.  And if you've never eaten competition BBQ, here's a hint, it sucks. In competition you get judged on one bite, and so cooks try to get as much flavor in that bite as possible, to the point if you ate a normal meal of it you would be sick. Also, the key to scoring in competition (and this is the running joke) is to have your entry offend the least number of judges as possible..... ie, you can't spice it up, or be too bland, etc. This is where getting a look at the judges before turn in comes in handy. If it's mostly women or older, you don't go spicy or even tangy... stay sweet and away from any heat. If it's a younger crowd of judges and a lot of men, you can go spicier. It's all a guessing game. But in the end, we would wind up taking leftover brisket and pork butt home (because we cooked it in competition just like I do at home), but would throw the remaining ribs and chicken away, because it was not what I like to eat.

If you are looking at videos, check out Malcomb Reed's "How to BBQ Right" series. You can tell after 5 seconds this man knows BBQ (you'll see what I mean) Malcomb has "Killer Bees" competition BBQ, and does quite well selling his rubs, sauces, etc. The difference with him is he sends out videos focusing on how he cooks at home as well as how he cooks at competition. You can subscribe to his channel free and get about 1 recipe a week sent to your email, and all his videos are on You Tube. 

(02-26-2021, 12:10 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: Glad you discovered the thread, Sled! 

I agree with the oak differences.  I've tried different varieties and just can't tell a difference between them.  I've loved pecan for turkey, but never used it on pork.  I really like peach on pork, with some oak.  Hickory is great at times, but I don't love it solo because of the intensity of the flavor.  

I've had choice briskets be less than awesome, and I've had prime briskets be less than awesome.  One thing I learned early on in the smoking game was how each piece of meat is completely unique.  You can use the same techniques and knowledge every time, but can't expect them all to behave exactly the same way.  Ultimately, with the right knowledge and patience, I think you can make any grade a masterpiece.  Wagyu sounds awesome, but I just can't dish out those kinds of dollars for a piece of meat I'm going to smoke all day.  

This is just personal taste, I just don't care for much smoke on any poultry, to the point if I'm doing turkey or chicken I usually just use charcoal with a couple of wood chunks of something really mild like apple in my smoker instead of burning wood

(02-26-2021, 12:13 PM)Sled21 Wrote: My son and I competed for years on the KCBS circuit, and did fairly well, won some money and some trophies. Forget competition BBQ unless you have a crap ton of money you just want to give away. Too much money ruined the sport. When we started out, you would have people coming in with pop up tents and a smoker and some coolers.(which is how we did it) My last competition the cheapest RV there was probably north of 250K.  Then you have the people bringing in whole cooking trailers with 10 man crews. Figure entry fees and meat, gas, supplies etc. and you're looking at 1000 dollars per competition.  And if you've never eaten competition BBQ, here's a hint, it sucks. In competition you get judged on one bite, and so cooks try to get as much flavor in that bite as possible, to the point if you ate a normal meal of it you would be sick. Also, the key to scoring in competition (and this is the running joke) is to have your entry offend the least number of judges as possible..... ie, you can't spice it up, or be too bland, etc. This is where getting a look at the judges before turn in comes in handy. If it's mostly women or older, you don't go spicy or even tangy... stay sweet and away from any heat. If it's a younger crowd of judges and a lot of men, you can go spicier. It's all a guessing game. But in the end, we would wind up taking leftover brisket and pork butt home (because we cooked it in competition just like I do at home), but would throw the remaining ribs and chicken away, because it was not what I like to eat.

If you are looking at videos, check out Malcomb Reed's "How to BBQ Right" series. You can tell after 5 seconds this man knows BBQ (you'll see what I mean) Malcomb has "Killer Bees" competition BBQ, and does quite well selling his rubs, sauces, etc. The difference with him is he sends out videos focusing on how he cooks at home as well as how he cooks at competition. You can subscribe to his channel free and get about 1 recipe a week sent to your email, and all his videos are on You Tube. 

I imagine there was a time when competitions were fun. Drink beer, tend a fire, and make some good food.

I watched a Harry Soo video on how he cooks for completion, and it’s ridiculous. It’s fake. All for a couple of slices in the middle of the flat and a few burnt ends. I’ve seen people just butcher ribs. It’s not what I, as a novice, ever envisioned when I thought of barbecue.

(01-31-2021, 04:40 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: No, it has been around forever.  There are only 2 pieces per cow, and outside of the West Coast, butchers weren't cutting it off of the remainder of the primal cut and selling it.  So for much of the US it would end up going into ground beef.  It used to be cheap on the West Coast, but thanks to it's popularity growing around the remainder of the country, it is getting pricier to meet the demand, despite the increase in supply.

Just like brisket. which years ago was a throw away cut for most butchers.

(02-18-2021, 09:24 PM)michaelsean Wrote: A couple questions if I’m not bothering you. (Nothing to do with the post I quoted)

Pit Boss now has charcoal pellets. What would be your opinion on mixing some in with my regular pellets?  Is that a desired flavor?

That leads to question #2. What role does charcoal play for the real stick burner smokers?  It is used just to start the fire?  Do you rely on it to provide some or a lot of the cooking heat?  Do you want it contributing much in the way of smoke?

My offset is pretty big, relatively speaking, but to answer your question I use charcoal just for a bed of coals to lay my splits on, then just use wood. Unless I'm doing poultry, in that case I use the charcoal for the cook and only add a few wood chunks. ( I just don't personally care for a lot of smoke on birds)

(02-19-2021, 01:21 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: And let me be clear, even though I prefer to stick burn (because I just enjoy it): you can make damn good smoked food on a pellet smoker.  It's easier to control, easier to manage and the food tastes great.  If you did a side-by-side comparison of a brisket from a pellet smoker and an offset, the offset would have some deeper smoke flavors, but it's not like the pellet would be bad at all.  I know some guys are super hardcore against pellet smokers and I'm just not that much of a purist.  I just don't want to fork over the cash for a pellet and I like managing a real fire because my inner caveman needs to be released every now and then is all.  So I just wanted to throw that out there, because there's a lot of hate for pellets in the smoking community.  

Charcoal is definitely mostly a tool (or a crutch, depending on size of smoker) for an offset.  

If you want to get in-depth on the topic, I recommend Mad Scientist BBQ on YouTube.  He talks a lot about how flavor comes from smoking, how to manage a fire, different types of smokers, etc.  As his name suggests, he dives into the chemistry of it all at times, but he's easy to understand and I really appreciate his approach of taking science into account to understand what makes BBQ work.  His most recent video was about using beef tallow on a brisket while wrapped.  My beef tallow should be arriving next week so I can try it out; the results were pretty convincing! 

Like I said before, I cook on a Pitmaker Long Rifle Sniper offset. I will always have an offset stick burner, because they simply make the best BBQ. That said, I'm looking at adding a Traeger for convenience and there's nothing wrong with pellet cookers. There are just pluses and minuses for everything.  I love to light my fire, stick the meat on, and tend the fire all day. It gives me a chance to sit around, drink beer or bourbon, smoke cigars, have good conversations with friends and family while watching the fire. That said, there are times I'd like to run a rack of chicken wings out there and go back in the house and not worry about them. I have a buddy who still competes, and goes through smokers like I go through socks. He had a Jambo stick burner, and switched to a gravity fed because he said he looked around one night at a competition and he was the only one still up. Two years later, he was back with another Jambo because he said the set and forget smokers made things boring like cooking in an oven. So it's all personal choice. And there will always be haters. Personally, I find a great deal of satisfaction in being able to manage the fire through a cook.

(02-26-2021, 12:27 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I imagine there was a time when competitions were fun. Drink beer, tend a fire, and make some good food.  

I watched a Harry Soo video on how he cooks for completion, and it’s ridiculous. It’s fake. All for a couple of slices in the middle of the flat and a few burnt ends. I’ve seen people just butcher ribs.  It’s not what I, as a novice, ever envisioned when I thought of barbecue.

That's absolutely true. The BBQ Pitmasters tv show ruined it for me. I swore one day if I heard one more person say "sweet with a little bit of heat" I was going to punch them. Just like everything else, money and popularity ruined a good thing... and KCBS became so political over contest issues it was just ridiculous. BBQ should be what it was at it's roots, a simple way to cook cheaply and turn out some of the best food on the planet.

(02-26-2021, 12:45 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Like I said before, I cook on a Pitmaker Long Rifle Sniper offset. I will always have an offset stick burner, because they simply make the best BBQ. That said, I'm looking at adding a Traeger for convenience and there's nothing wrong with pellet cookers. There are just pluses and minuses for everything.  I love to light my fire, stick the meat on, and tend the fire all day. It gives me a chance to sit around, drink beer or bourbon, smoke cigars, have good conversations with friends and family while watching the fire. That said, there are times I'd like to run a rack of chicken wings out there and go back in the house and not worry about them. I have a buddy who still competes, and goes through smokers like I go through socks. He had a Jambo stick burner, and switched to a gravity fed because he said he looked around one night at a competition and he was the only one still up. Two years later, he was back with another Jambo because he said the set and forget smokers made things boring like cooking in an oven. So it's all personal choice. And there will always be haters. Personally, I find a great deal of satisfaction in being able to manage the fire through a cook.

I think tending the fire would be great, but I’m pretty happy I blindly stumbled on to a pellet smoker. I’m almost 54, and learning two things at once is just not something I’d want to do. I said earlier that if I feel I’m decent smoking then I may decide to take up learning how to cook on a stick burner.

Some ribs I did before it got cold.....

(02-26-2021, 12:51 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I think tending the fire would be great, but I’m pretty happy I blindly stumbled on to a pellet smoker. I’m almost 54, and learning two things at once is just not something I’d want to do. I said earlier that if I feel I’m decent smoking then I may decide to take up learning how to cook on a stick burner.

Sounds like a good plan. 

(02-23-2021, 05:32 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote:   My tallow just arrived this past weekend and I'm ready to give it a shot! 

So you can buy just straight tallow?

That reminds me of the time I was turning one of my goats into sausage.  When you make sausage from lean meat instead of pork you actually have to add some pure fat.  So I went to Swaggerty Farms plant outside of Sevierville to buy casings and fat.  The pure pork fat was $1.99 a pound.  As I was paying for it I saw a pork shoulder roast for $1.59.  That just seemed crazy to me.

Luckily I was just making a small one-goat sized batch.

Large commercial marijuana farms should package and sell their by product (leaves and stems) as pellets for smokers.