(02-20-2021, 07:59 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: we will see, also if Dallas or Texans go after him, they have a financial advantage with the ability to structure taxes to offer more.. not sure of their cap issues though

You can take the Texans off the list.  They are in rebuild mode, are in CAP hell and will be looking to shed salary, not add it.

(02-20-2021, 09:07 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I took it as meaning longevity/contracts in the sense of resigning after the rookie deal. Like, to remain with one club over the course of a career. With the Bengals historically not paying guards and interior linemen, I understood what was maybe being conveyed as: When the second contract comes around and it's time to make the bigger money in a 2nd contract, the Bengals would be tougher to deal with for a player of Joe's position.

That part about the agent's conversation was told to me by a family member in virtually the exact same manner two different times since Joe was drafted. They 100% would have there and would have had conversations with the agent.

I was wondering about that too because we typically always spend up to the salary cap and it's not like we're spending it all on rookies, especially since the rookie salary cap.

Love to see Thuney here on a fair to both parties deal.

(02-20-2021, 06:45 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Sign Thuney
Sign Linsley
Draft Sewell 5th overall (Jonah to RT)
Draft Trey Hill 38th overall and move him to RG with plans for him to move back to C in 3-ish years.

Burrow now has 4 seconds to throw every down and you don't have to think about the OL again for 4 years. They have been dicking around with a shitty OL for 4 years now. Time to finally fix it and turn it into a strength.

All for the first 3 moves for damn sure. Agreed we need to stop dicking around and finally go all in on OL.

But as Synric said, Trey Hill doesn't fit what we run right now and that is a bit early to take him too.

We need to start a Center thread in the Draft forum.

(02-20-2021, 07:47 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I have known the whole Thuney family very well for the last (roughly) 5 years and have met Joe a handful of times when he has been back in town. I have some insight on this....

Super nice guy (his favorite sport is soccer) and a wonderful family. Back in Jan I was speaking to his mother and, without giving away too much, would say that Joe would definitely listen to the Bengals, but they would have to come to the table with a competitive offer. The family travels to every game to support Joe (with the exception of most games this year because of COVID) and they would love to have him back home in SW Ohio. Nothing would make them happier, but this is Joe's job and his money that he is earning. They support whatever he does 100%!

I don't believe he loved it in NE. Very very business like there. A stale and cold organization, I would say, is the impression I got from conversations with the family. I would think he would be looking for a 3 year deal. 4 would surprise me. 5 would shock me. Not sure what the Bengals are going to be looking for in terms of length of deal and if that would be a deal breaker of not. The NFL is a job and it wears on people. I'm not sure it's fun for linemen like it was in college or high school. I don't see Joe playing far into his 30s. He's a very mature, grown up kid.

Something that was said to me is that, when he was drafted, Joe's agent told him that dealing with the Bengals was not where they wanted to be and that they were notoriously cheap and not like other teams in negotiations. The agent told the family that the Bengals would not be a team to be excited about getting drafted by from a business perspective. That was 2016. I think/hope the FO has changed a lot since then. We shall see!

I also deal with the same firm that does the Brown family taxes. In a meeting two weeks ago I was told, while talking football during a break in a meeting, that Mike Brown, due to health and other things, has all but stepped away completely and that Katie and Troy basically run everything now. That is why we are seeing some more progressive things introduced into the organization with FAs, ticket incentives, and social media modernization. Again, without giving away too much, it would seem to reason that Katie & Troy have had a lot of their own ideas planned for a long time and are finally getting to implement them without obstruction. Hopefully they get things done with Joe!

BTW, Katie Blackburn is a class act person and an incredibly normal human being (in a good way) for being an NFL owner. At season ticket events she is there in person, personable to speak to, and even holds doors open as fans come while she greats them. SHe's someone that would hold the elevator door open for you. I'm extremely excited for the Bengals future with her at the helm.

Something interesting to think about with Katie's arch into ownership is that she saw all of Mike's struggles at QB when he took over. It was awful. I think that she sees Joe Burrow as a gift her father never got when starting to run the team. I don't see her squandering this.

Joe Thuney as a Bengal would be amazing for the area, the team, and the family. They are all first class people. Hope it happens! IMO, the Bengals cannot overpay for O linemen. As in: It would be impossible to do so. They should pay whatever it takes to get premium, proven O Line talent in front of Joey B.

Thanks for this PDub80. All great things to know, especially the part about Katie. Makes me more hopeful for the future.

Especially with Burrow and yes, we cannot pay proven O-Lineman enough to put in front of Smokin' Joe.

We take care of him, he will take care of us and we will be winning playoff games and hopefully a SB or two down the road.

(02-20-2021, 07:47 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I have known the whole Thuney family very well for the last (roughly) 5 years and have met Joe a handful of times when he has been back in town. I have some insight on this....

Super nice guy (his favorite sport is soccer) and a wonderful family. Back in Jan I was speaking to his mother and, without giving away too much, would say that Joe would definitely listen to the Bengals, but they would have to come to the table with a competitive offer. The family travels to every game to support Joe (with the exception of most games this year because of COVID) and they would love to have him back home in SW Ohio. Nothing would make them happier, but this is Joe's job and his money that he is earning. They support whatever he does 100%!

I don't believe he loved it in NE. Very very business like there. A stale and cold organization, I would say, is the impression I got from conversations with the family. I would think he would be looking for a 3 year deal. 4 would surprise me. 5 would shock me. Not sure what the Bengals are going to be looking for in terms of length of deal and if that would be a deal breaker of not. The NFL is a job and it wears on people. I'm not sure it's fun for linemen like it was in college or high school. I don't see Joe playing far into his 30s. He's a very mature, grown up kid.

Something that was said to me is that, when he was drafted, Joe's agent told him that dealing with the Bengals was not where they wanted to be and that they were notoriously cheap and not like other teams in negotiations. The agent told the family that the Bengals would not be a team to be excited about getting drafted by from a business perspective. That was 2016. I think/hope the FO has changed a lot since then. We shall see!

I also deal with the same firm that does the Brown family taxes. In a meeting two weeks ago I was told, while talking football during a break in a meeting, that Mike Brown, due to health and other things, has all but stepped away completely and that Katie and Troy basically run everything now. That is why we are seeing some more progressive things introduced into the organization with FAs, ticket incentives, and social media modernization. Again, without giving away too much, it would seem to reason that Katie & Troy have had a lot of their own ideas planned for a long time and are finally getting to implement them without obstruction. Hopefully they get things done with Joe!

BTW, Katie Blackburn is a class act person and an incredibly normal human being (in a good way) for being an NFL owner. At season ticket events she is there in person, personable to speak to, and even holds doors open as fans come while she greats them. SHe's someone that would hold the elevator door open for you. I'm extremely excited for the Bengals future with her at the helm.

Something interesting to think about with Katie's arch into ownership is that she saw all of Mike's struggles at QB when he took over. It was awful. I think that she sees Joe Burrow as a gift her father never got when starting to run the team. I don't see her squandering this.

Joe Thuney as a Bengal would be amazing for the area, the team, and the family. They are all first class people. Hope it happens! IMO, the Bengals cannot overpay for O linemen. As in: It would be impossible to do so. They should pay whatever it takes to get premium, proven O Line talent in front of Joey B.

This is the sign of a poor agent. The Bengals are not cheap when it comes to paying players, and they are beyond other teams when it comes to honoring contracts once they are signed. This agent sucks and likely couldn't get a deal he wanted from the Bengals for another client, so he steers his other clients away from them? Hopefully Thuney has been around long enough to know better. 

(02-20-2021, 03:35 PM)Tony Wrote: Nah, He is taking the most money. He already has the chip....

I honestly believe there won't be more money elsewhere, and the guy does have extensive family here.  I think it is a very real possibility, but I bet the Bengals try something like 5 years for $50 million with $35 guaranteed.  It is only $10 million per year, but has a high guarantee and he gets to come home.  I would sure love this.  

If they sign Lawson and WJIII prior, then add Thuney, you are staring down the barrel of a clear choice of Sewell if he is there, Chase if he is not.  

(02-20-2021, 04:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thuney definitely makes sense with his ties to Cincy but I think we could get a younger player like Moton for cheaper
and get rid of Hart's contract while bringing in a Center like Mack and draft a Guard like Mienerz in the mid rounds.

I think out of Spain and XSF we can get a quality Guard once they get Pollack's system down.

Jonah - Spain - Mack - Meinerz/XSF - Moton

As much as I want Thuney, a RT is more important overall.  I just don't see them being able to get Moton, and there isn't talent at the very top of the draft that I want to stick at RT from Day 1.  Sewell would most likely be our LT and Jonah would move to the right, with Adeniji the first off the bench.  There is some guard talent in the draft, but I am looking for certainties (of which there are none in life, I get it) and the most certain options are the ones that have executed and played at a high level in the NFL.  

If we were able to get Thuney, and then draft Chase in Rd 1, there will be numerous options to draft a RT in the 2nd round, but it would still be a risky proposition.  I would almost want to retain Hart for that money as insurance. 

i mean its just a guy writing an article.... Lets get excited when His agent says hes been contacted by us. (after legal tampering begins)

(02-26-2021, 10:02 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: As much as I want Thuney, a RT is more important overall.  I just don't see them being able to get Moton, and there isn't talent at the very top of the draft that I want to stick at RT from Day 1.  Sewell would most likely be our LT and Jonah would move to the right, with Adeniji the first off the bench.  There is some guard talent in the draft, but I am looking for certainties (of which there are none in life, I get it) and the most certain options are the ones that have executed and played at a high level in the NFL.  

If we were able to get Thuney, and then draft Chase in Rd 1, there will be numerous options to draft a RT in the 2nd round, but it would still be a risky proposition.  I would almost want to retain Hart for that money as insurance. 

Even if u sign all the offensive lineman there are major needs elsewhere that are miles more important than drafting a wide receiver at 5. If Sewell isn’t there u trade back and get an edge rusher or a corner which are far more pressing needs than chase at 5 smh

While I would love it if the Bengals sign Thuney, I just don't see how one star inserted into a dismal line is enough.

Even if Thuney is signed, I'd still take the best OT available when the Bengals draft in the 1st round (small trade down is possible for value reasons), plus I'd take a OG or C on day 2.

(02-26-2021, 01:53 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Even if u sign all the offensive lineman there are major needs elsewhere that are miles more important than drafting a wide receiver at 5.  If Sewell isn’t there u trade back and get an edge rusher or a corner which are far more pressing needs than chase at 5 smh

SMH?  

Ok, Ja'Marr Chase had the single greatest season for a WR at 19 years of age in the SEC.  That team was loaded (what I want for us here) which only further highlights his impact.  He broke those records despite having Justin Jefferson in the slot and CEH as a RB.  He was not the only weapon, but he helped open up everything for the rest of the offense.  

I heard yesterday on the "Locked on Bengals" podcast that Chase had a 99.0 rating on deep passes (those over 20 yards) with some insane numbers and ONE DROP.  One of the greatest things lacking on the Bengal's offense was the vertical passing game, and no...it wasn't just because of the offensive line.  

I am really curious what DE or CB you think can have an impact like that on this team.  I will wait for your answer.  

(02-27-2021, 08:41 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: SMH?  

Ok, Ja'Marr Chase had the single greatest season for a WR at 19 years of age in the SEC.  That team was loaded (what I want for us here) which only further highlights his impact.  He broke those records despite having Justin Jefferson in the slot and CEH as a RB.  He was not the only weapon, but he helped open up everything for the rest of the offense.  

I heard yesterday on the "Locked on Bengals" podcast that Chase had a 99.0 rating on deep passes (those over 20 yards) with some insane numbers and ONE DROP.  One of the greatest things lacking on the Bengal's offense was the vertical passing game, and no...it wasn't just because of the offensive line.  

I am really curious what DE or CB you think can have an impact like that on this team.  I will wait for your answer.  

Agreed... And drafting for need is how you end up with a sub par roster. We need talent, and more of it. And acting like WR isn't a need is sorta silly too. I like Boyd and Higgins too, and I think Higgins will be really good when all is said and done... Neither had 1000 yards last year. We weren't exactly a run first offense if ya know what I mean either.

(02-26-2021, 10:02 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: As much as I want Thuney, a RT is more important overall.  I just don't see them being able to get Moton, and there isn't talent at the very top of the draft that I want to stick at RT from Day 1.  Sewell would most likely be our LT and Jonah would move to the right, with Adeniji the first off the bench.  There is some guard talent in the draft, but I am looking for certainties (of which there are none in life, I get it) and the most certain options are the ones that have executed and played at a high level in the NFL.  

If we were able to get Thuney, and then draft Chase in Rd 1, there will be numerous options to draft a RT in the 2nd round, but it would still be a risky proposition.  I would almost want to retain Hart for that money as insurance. 

Sounds like Moton will be tagged anyways. Daryl Williams, Scherff or Ricky Wagner would be the guys I would be eyeing for RT now.

It is easier to find a decent Guard then a decent OT now a days. I go proven there.

If Sewell is not there at 5 trading back and grabbing Vera-Tucker might be in the cards even. I like a lot of the OT's in this draft too.

2nd round should have quite a few good ones. Eichenberg or Cosmi to name a few I really like.

Hart is still under contract pretty sure, no need to retain him. He is here unless we cut him.

BTW, as you know I am for picking Chase if Sewell is gone for sure. Chase or Pitts if Sewell is gone is more than fine with me at 5.

(02-27-2021, 12:29 PM)jason Wrote: Agreed... And drafting for need is how you end up with a sub par roster. We need talent, and more of it. And acting like WR isn't a need is sorta silly too. I like Boyd and Higgins too, and I think Higgins will be really good when all is said and done... Neither had 1000 yards last year. We weren't exactly a run first offense if ya know what I mean either.

Great point.  

(02-27-2021, 08:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sounds like Moton will be tagged anyways. Daryl Williams, Scherff or Ricky Wagner would be the guys I would be eyeing for RT now.

It is easier to find a decent Guard then a decent OT now a days. I go proven there.

If Sewell is not there at 5 trading back and grabbing Vera-Tucker might be in the cards even. I like a lot of the OT's in this draft too.

2nd round should have quite a few good ones. Eichenberg or Cosmi to name a few I really like.

Hart is still under contract pretty sure, no need to retain him. He is here unless we cut him.

BTW, as you know I am for picking Chase if Sewell is gone for sure. Chase or Pitts if Sewell is gone is more than fine with me at 5.

While I agree with this sentiment (and this is going to come with a ton of disclaimers, so hold on before replying), isn't this what the Bengals already have?  Decent OTs?  Jonah is solid and I would call him ascending, but he has had trouble staying healthy.  Bobby Hart had his best season as a pro (insert tallest dwarf joke here), but actually graded out fairly well....at least average, right?

The biggest issue with the offensive line last year wasn't the OTs or the C, but the revolving door of guys that played like revolving doors.  Jordan was SO BAD.  So were the majority of guys that rotated early at RG....Billy Price, Alex Redmond....Until we got XSF and Spain out there in the guard positions, the offense was rowing a boat with a lot of holes.  Even with those two, they still struggled as an offense against the better defenses (Baltimore, pitt) although some of that could have been attributed to other losses (Burrow).

So, where does that leave us?  Do I think Spain and XSF could man the guard positions and be at least "solid" in 2021?  I do.  However, the injury history and lack of depth behind them is concerning.  I would much rather see a guy like Thuney manning the LG spot next to Jonah for the next  5 years and have Spain and XSF battle it out with a draft pick for the RG position.  

Do I want to go in to 2021 with Hart as our RT and Adeniji as the backup to both tackle spots?  Hell, no.  And you named a few candidates that should be able to push Hart out as a starter but it is still asking an awful lot to have a rookie come in and man the right side of the line.  If Sewell is gone, and we go Chase, I sure hope there is someone we all really like there in Rd 2.  

As a developmental RT, I really like Spencer Brown or Daniel Faalele, but in those scenarios (likely waiting to Rd 3 to add and thinking something like DT or edge in Rd 2), you almost have to keep Hart as the starter until someone keeps his job.  I know that won't be very popular around here, but the chances of drafting someone outside of Sewell that comes in as a rookie and grades out higher than his 66.3 with 3 penalties and 4 sacks allowed in 872 snaps isn't very likely.  Especially when so many of them (both Brown and Faalele) didn't play in 2020.  

This conundrum is why I keep coming back to a FA for the RT position.  A proven commodity, opens up the draft (allowing to add a solid Guard to pair with XSF and Spain perhaps in Rd 3), and also allows the addition of the incredible weapon in Chase in Rd 1.  So much hinges on it.  

One last comment.  I have no idea how Adeniji fits in Pollack's scheme, but I haven't forgotten about him.  I think he still has a shot at RT if he comes in and focuses on only that position from day 1 next year.  

(02-26-2021, 09:47 AM)Sled21 Wrote: This is the sign of a poor agent. The Bengals are not cheap when it comes to paying players, and they are beyond other teams when it comes to honoring contracts once they are signed. This agent sucks and likely couldn't get a deal he wanted from the Bengals for another client, so he steers his other clients away from them? Hopefully Thuney has been around long enough to know better. 

The Bengals are absolutely known to be cheap adding FAs outside of the org, which is why last year there was a big deal made when they finally went and spent money on other team's players. To act is if that has been the norm for the past 30 or 40 years is goofy to me.

At the time Joe Thuney was drafted, and when this was said to the family, the Bengals were absolutely known as cheap ass sticklers (especially with paying Joe's position of GUARD) running a NFL franchise like a mom & pop shop. I'm a Bengals fan, too, but that doesn't make me delusional.

(02-28-2021, 09:22 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: While I agree with this sentiment (and this is going to come with a ton of disclaimers, so hold on before replying), isn't this what the Bengals already have?  Decent OTs?  Jonah is solid and I would call him ascending, but he has had trouble staying healthy.  Bobby Hart had his best season as a pro (insert tallest dwarf joke here), but actually graded out fairly well....at least average, right?

The biggest issue with the offensive line last year wasn't the OTs or the C, but the revolving door of guys that played like revolving doors.  Jordan was SO BAD.  So were the majority of guys that rotated early at RG....Billy Price, Alex Redmond....Until we got XSF and Spain out there in the guard positions, the offense was rowing a boat with a lot of holes.  Even with those two, they still struggled as an offense against the better defenses (Baltimore, pitt) although some of that could have been attributed to other losses (Burrow).

So, where does that leave us?  Do I think Spain and XSF could man the guard positions and be at least "solid" in 2021?  I do.  However, the injury history and lack of depth behind them is concerning.  I would much rather see a guy like Thuney manning the LG spot next to Jonah for the next  5 years and have Spain and XSF battle it out with a draft pick for the RG position.  

Do I want to go in to 2021 with Hart as our RT and Adeniji as the backup to both tackle spots?  Hell, no.  And you named a few candidates that should be able to push Hart out as a starter but it is still asking an awful lot to have a rookie come in and man the right side of the line.  If Sewell is gone, and we go Chase, I sure hope there is someone we all really like there in Rd 2.  

As a developmental RT, I really like Spencer Brown or Daniel Faalele, but in those scenarios (likely waiting to Rd 3 to add and thinking something like DT or edge in Rd 2), you almost have to keep Hart as the starter until someone keeps his job.  I know that won't be very popular around here, but the chances of drafting someone outside of Sewell that comes in as a rookie and grades out higher than his 66.3 with 3 penalties and 4 sacks allowed in 872 snaps isn't very likely.  Especially when so many of them (both Brown and Faalele) didn't play in 2020.  

This conundrum is why I keep coming back to a FA for the RT position.  A proven commodity, opens up the draft (allowing to add a solid Guard to pair with XSF and Spain perhaps in Rd 3), and also allows the addition of the incredible weapon in Chase in Rd 1.  So much hinges on it.  

One last comment.  I have no idea how Adeniji fits in Pollack's scheme, but I haven't forgotten about him.  I think he still has a shot at RT if he comes in and focuses on only that position from day 1 next year.  

A lot of good points. I just think we can upgrade over Hart while getting rid of his salary with a Daryl Williams or a Ricky 
Wagner signing. Hart is just a poor pass blocker and that isn't what we need around here with Burrow just getting hurt in 
his rookie season cause of poor pass blocking. I do like Adeniji but I don't think he is ready yet for a starting position.

What is nice about getting a proven RT in FA is that it opens it up for us to get Chase or Pitts in case Sewell is gone and 
if Sewell is there I would still take him and move Jonah to Guard where I bet he would automatically be our best one.

I think Spain and XSF can be decent for us, they didn't have much time to adjust to our system. I think with an entire 
Offseason one of them my bet is Spain can be good here.

But hey, also all for bringing in Thuney as you know.

Patriots just traded for Trent Brown Pats beat reporters seem to believe this means that Thuney will not be tagged as they can't afford both players

You mean Trent brown?