(04-21-2021, 01:49 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am just saying I saw it a lot last year where our guys couldn't get open. 

(04-22-2021, 08:50 AM)yang Wrote: I think we get it.  You prefer WR’s with cornerbacks draped over them.   A lot of us like the ones that can get away from those guys, at least a little. 

(04-22-2021, 09:41 AM)Housh Wrote: Tee is likely as good as he’s ever going to be right now. He’s not gonna get faster or develop Chad Johnson like feet. He’s a good WR and likely will be for a decade. No problem with that. Mohammad Sanu made a good career of it

(04-22-2021, 01:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: How can you call a rookie (going into his 2nd year) as good as he's ever going to be? As athletic? Sure, probably. But you can't discount experience and learning better route running, tips/tricks etc. Most good receivers continue to get better at getting open as their career advances. 

(04-22-2021, 01:43 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: But he’s not going to consistently generate separation on vertical routes. That’s not some controversial statement; it’s not reliant upon any statistic, and it’s not message board nonsense. It’s readily apparent.

(04-22-2021, 01:52 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Just for shitz and giggz let's look at it this way. 

If you see that happening 2, 3, 4 times a game--which seems pretty reasonable, that's at most, 64 times in a year. Let's say you see it 5 times a game. That's 80 times in a 16 game schedule. 

80 times out of 389 targets to WRs last year. That's a 20% clip of the total pass attempts to receivers.
Let's say you see it 8 times a game. 32% clip.
Let's say you see it 10 times a game. 41% clip.

So, if you see Bengals receivers struggling to get open 10 times every game, a pretty ridiculous number iyam, you're still only seeing it happen 41% of the time. Anything below 50% of the time and you can't realistically say they're "having trouble getting open". 

(04-22-2021, 01:39 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: There's a lot of in and out cutting routes and a lot of hook routes. Those are a death knell for separation. That's why it's a useless stat. 

People can be my guest and study it all they want but they better check the types of routes that are run to see how it applies to each individual player. 

If Bengals receivers were running a lot of 7s, 8s and 9s and weren't getting enough space from the defender to be effective, then it's a problem but the Bengals don't run all that many of those routes. 

(04-22-2021, 02:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Only a small percentage of deep routes are straight fly/post patterns.  Most of them are. "go routs" off a hook or slant or out pattern where the receiver creates srparation with route running skills instead of just pure speed.

(04-22-2021, 01:52 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Just for shitz and giggz let's look at it this way. 

If you see that happening 2, 3, 4 times a game--which seems pretty reasonable, that's at most, 64 times in a year. Let's say you see it 5 times a game. That's 80 times in a 16 game schedule. 

80 times out of 389 targets to WRs last year. That's a 20% clip of the total pass attempts to receivers.
Let's say you see it 8 times a game. 32% clip.
Let's say you see it 10 times a game. 41% clip.

So, if you see Bengals receivers struggling to get open 10 times every game, a pretty ridiculous number iyam, you're still only seeing it happen 41% of the time. Anything below 50% of the time and you can't realistically say they're "having trouble getting open". 

(04-22-2021, 01:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: How can you call a rookie (going into his 2nd year) as good as he's ever going to be? As athletic? Sure, probably. But you can't discount experience and learning better route running, tips/tricks etc. Most good receivers continue to get better at getting open as their career advances. 

(04-22-2021, 02:14 PM)Dr.Z Wrote: You and Fred on previous page beat me to it, but I thought this was crazy too.   What on Earth would lead to such a declaration after a very good prospect has a very good rookie season....only to say: "he's as good as he's ever going to be." 

(04-22-2021, 02:29 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I love this message board. Makes me laugh on a regular.

Some of the same dudes that were comparing Tee to AJ after we drafted him last season are the same dudes that are now beating the drum for Chase.

Too funny! So, last year he was an up and coming AJ. He did nothing but good things in his first season, but now the team suddenly needs a #1 WR...lol
Chase is a great talent that should only help the offense if we take him.
Ts, Tee Higgins IS a #1 WR, and many should go ahead and take note of that fact.

(04-22-2021, 01:14 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Is this what people really think of Higgins? Or are people trashing him because they want Chase?

(04-22-2021, 07:27 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Okay, damn Rfaulk, just saying we can get better. What is wrong with that?

(04-22-2021, 03:21 PM)Whatever Wrote: Dude, by this logic an OL that allows a QB hit on 49% of pass plays doesn't have trouble pass blocking.  A QB that completes 51% of his passes or a K that hits 51% of his kicks don't have accuracy issues.

The bar for good or bad performances by players is relative to the other players at the same position across the league and very rarely is that bar set at 50%.

(04-22-2021, 09:50 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Comparing Tee to Sanu is a really bad take. Tee is obviously a far better player. Tee’s ceiling to me is high end #2, or low end #1. That is obviously higher than Sanu’s ever was.

(04-22-2021, 10:22 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If a WRs beat CBs as often as a T or G beat a defender, they'd all be in the HoF. 

(04-23-2021, 01:55 AM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: I am not remotely certain that this is a sound statement.

@teehiggins5 working ? pic.twitter.com/KwXxzjKyYU

— Grade ?️ (@Grade_aTraining) April 23, 2021

(04-22-2021, 02:29 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I love this message board. Makes me laugh on a regular.

Some of the same dudes that were comparing Tee to AJ after we drafted him last season are the same dudes that are now beating the drum for Chase.

Too funny! So, last year he was an up and coming AJ. He did nothing but good things in his first season, but now the team suddenly needs a #1 WR...lol
Chase is a great talent that should only help the offense if we take him.
Ts, Tee Higgins IS a #1 WR, and many should go ahead and take note of that fact.