(09-20-2017, 01:34 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Ok, so this will be a bit long winded and may make some angry lol:

Through Accomplishments: Johnny Bench
Through Sheer Ability/Talent: Eric Davis

That being said, I feel the Reds all-around best player was Barry Larkin. Bar none.

Honourable mentions go to Votto, George Foster, Jose Rijo, Joe Morgan, Pete Harnisch.

I wouldn't consider Rose even in the top 10 and this is without the scandal; he is certainly super popular and does own records, but that is because HE PLAYED FAR AND AWAY THE MOST OF ANY BASEBALL PLAYER IN WORLD HISTORY.

The closest person to him in longevity, is Ty Cobb and Cobb smashes the absolute crap out of Rose and this is in an era where offense was non-existent. Yes, I know Cobb is one of the 5 greatest baseball players in world history, but had Rose played the SAME amount as Cobb, his numbers would be drastically lower, significantly lower.

People like him, Concepcion, Tony Perez, Tom Browning, were all GREAT players, but they were more popular, due to hometown bias, than they should be; I wouldn't place any of these guys in the top 5, for example.

Votto, by the time he retires, will be there with Larkin and Bench, as the top 3; he's a once in a generation talent.

EDIT: My favourite? Tough.

Dave Parker is one of my favourite players ever
Hal Morris is definitely up there
Eddie Taubensee is one of my favourite catchers ever
Harnisch and Rijo are up there, as is Norm Charlton

But if I had to pick my favourite RED, whom I always associate with the Reds...
Gotta be Hal Morris or Billy Hatcher.

(09-03-2017, 06:28 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: On a list of great Reds, Joey Votto might crack the top 25. That's how awesome the Reds were back in the day.

(09-26-2017, 12:31 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 2 MVPs
14 All-Stars
2 WS Rings
10 Gold Gloves

Considered by many to be the greatest catcher of all time. It is hard to not give the title of Best Reds Player Ever to Johnny Bench right now.

That said, Joey Votto is the best batter in Reds history. He doesn't have the base stealing of Morgan, defense of Bench, or Versatility/Long Resume of Rose, but if you take everything that makes a good batter and put it together... Hitting for average, hitting for power, having a good eye, being able to work walks, hitting with runners in scoring position... it is Joey Votto. Nobody else has ALL of it together quite like Votto.

Frank Robinson probably #2 right now. Votto will easily finish his career as a top-5 Reds player of all time with a chance at taking #1.

Votto in Reds Franchise All-Time Rankings....
Position Player War: 6th
Batting Average: 5th
On Base %: 1st
Slugging: 2nd
On Base + Slugging: 1st
Total Bases: 10th
Doubles: 6th
Home Runs: 5th
Walks: 2nd
OPS+: 1st
Runs Created: 4th
XBH: 7th
Intentional Walks: 2nd

Some of those are counting stats that he'll just keep going higher up on that list, too. If he plays like he has the last couple years for 2-3 more years, and then starts declining while staying at a decent level for another 3-4 more years after that, Votto will probably go down as the best Reds player ever. Right now he just needs more productive years in the uniform, only really having 10 years in the majors so far. He gets that up to 16-17 years anywhere close to what he's currently at career-wise and it's his title.

People hate on him because Marty hates on him, and because they like RBI. It's not his fault he keeps getting managers that put Drew Stubbs, Billy Hamilton, Jose Peraza, Skip Schumaker, Wilson Valdez, etc, hitting in front of him. Gotta have people on to hit people in.

Joey Votto Career Line: .313/.428/.540/.967
Joey Votto Career Line w/ RISP: .335/.488/.590/1.078

That's as "clutch" as you could ever ask a player to be.

(10-21-2017, 08:04 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: The tenacity that Rose played the game has to put him in the top of any All-Time sports mention.

I'm going to add this "unseen" stat to his resume.

If you watched him play most every game... you would know that Pete would swing and make contact with just about any pitch.

In doing so he would wear pitchers out because they would have to throw so many just to him.

I don't really like Rose as a person he comes across as a prick to me (and that was before the scandal).

Barry Larkin would have to be my favorite because he was an excellent player and likeable personality as well.

(11-03-2017, 11:28 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I know this is going to hurt the feelings of all the old ass dudes here, but Joey Votto is better all around than any given member of the Big Red Machine.  Don't let your bias and love for that era of Reds history cloud your judgement.

(11-05-2017, 02:27 PM)McC Wrote: Bullshit.  Someday, you'll be an old ass dude too.  Maybe by then, you'll grow a tiny bit of respect.

(11-10-2017, 11:17 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: We have respect, but the truth and stats speak for themselves. Go compare Votto's career stat line up against anyone in Reds history and tell me who has a better line than him. Ill wait. 

(11-10-2017, 12:07 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Honestly, to me anyway, Bench as a catcher is a different animal altogether to compare to.  But in terms of his peers.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_C.shtml

(11-11-2017, 02:27 PM)McC Wrote: You wanna know why he isn't the best and still ranks behind the others?  Look at his post season stats, specifically 2012, when all they needed for three straight games was for somebody to drive in one more run and nobody did.  Nine post season games, 1 RBI.

The Big Red Machine drove in those runs, which is why they have the hardware and the recognition.  One word describes why he is behind them--clutch.

The only one of the big four from the Big Red Machine he can touch defensively is Rose and that's probably because Rose played so many positions.  And you do agree the game is half offense and half defense, right?

Just because it didn't happen yesterday doesn't mean it didn't happen.  There is no rewriting history just because you weren't there.

I rank him right behind Bench, Morgan, Rose and Perez and in a relative tie with Larkin.

(11-14-2017, 12:37 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: So we're basing how good a player is all time based on the number of RBIs (a stat that many people this day discredit) he had in one series in the 2012 playoffs? Got it. 

And you go realize that Votto has won gold gloves, right?

(11-14-2017, 07:37 PM)McC Wrote: Yes.  It's called coming through in the clutch.  It's actually two series and a play in game.  If he's batting third, isn't driving people in his job?  Greatness includes coming through in the post season.

And I am in no way saying Votto isn't a great player.  I think he's right behind Bench, Morgan, Rose and Perez and right there with Larkin.  It's not disrespect.  Those guys are 4 HOFers and Rose.