(07-31-2023, 11:29 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Reds also need a long relief guy. Not sure if that's an internal or external addition, but the Reds just used 4 guys in the bullpen to throw 3.2 innings, and the Cubs used 1 guy to throw 3.2 innings. That might show up big in game 3 or 4 of this series.

(07-31-2023, 06:36 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I've been suggesting that the Reds might decide to stay the course and ride it out until Greene gets back. Williamson has a 4.48 ERA. That's damn good for a fifth starter with half of his starts at GABP. Acquiring any starter better than him is going to cost too much in a seller's market and Lodolo is coming back later to probably push Williamson to the pen.

Lively has been the pleasant surprise. That's been a rare good signing from the scrap heap that the Reds have been known to dig through(Tim Adleman, Scott Feldman, Matt Harvey).

(08-01-2023, 05:28 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Verlander to Astros
Lorenzen to Phillies
Dodgers reportedly heavily in on Eduardo Rodriguez but no deal yet
Jack Flaherty and Dylan Cease still not traded yet

(08-02-2023, 11:40 AM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: Now that the TD has passed, I can say I’m not disappointed whatsoever. I’m glad we didn’t give up future assets for a two-month rental SP who would either opt out at the end of the year (ERod), a 41-year old with an albatross contract replaces Votto’s contract with Verlander), a former Red who has never thrown THIS many innings before (Lorenzen) or sell the proverbial farm for Cease. I know some fans wanted more than Moll, but the prices were (and usually always are) too high for bruised fruit. The kids and The Chin have gotten us this far, may as well ride it out and see what we need going into the offseason.

Now, if they don’t spend $$$ this offseason I will be very, VERY disappointed. Pay Votto his 8million to retire. Spend on a MOR pitcher, preferably a RHP, we already have Abbot, Williamson, and Lodolo(?). Adding another righty should be a priority. If no FA RH SP is signed, then go the trade route. Prices won’t be as high as they are in-season and maybe we can hammer out a deal with someone or get into a multi-team trade?

(08-02-2023, 04:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I get wanting to see how the young guys (mainly pitchers at this point) develop through the rest of this year and not necessarily care too much if they get to the postseason or not.
With that said, you don't know how the next couple years will go, and this really could have been your best chance.
Would hate to look back and regret not making a move after all.

Here's to hoping they at least make a move in the offseason if there's an opportunity to improve the rotation and/or bullpen.
I especially want to see how Greene and Lodolo factor into the rotation once they're back.
Ideally, the rotation is Greene, Ashcraft, Abbott, Lodolo, and Williamson to start next year, then have Connor Phillips planned as a long reliever if he's not already pushing someone for one of the starting spots.

(08-02-2023, 04:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I get wanting to see how the young guys (mainly pitchers at this point) develop through the rest of this year and not necessarily care too much if they get to the postseason or not.
With that said, you don't know how the next couple years will go, and this really could have been your best chance.
Would hate to look back and regret not making a move after all.

Here's to hoping they at least make a move in the offseason if there's an opportunity to improve the rotation and/or bullpen.
I especially want to see how Greene and Lodolo factor into the rotation once they're back.
Ideally, the rotation is Greene, Ashcraft, Abbott, Lodolo, and Williamson to start next year, then have Connor Phillips planned as a long reliever if he's not already pushing someone for one of the starting spots.

(08-06-2023, 09:39 PM)samhain Wrote: The offseason approach will be interesting.

They may not need a ton, but they have needs, regardless.  They also have a laughable payroll once Votto and Moose drop off the books.

If we get another winter of crying poor and bitching about payroll and resources, then there's no hope for this ownership group.  

(08-06-2023, 09:39 PM)samhain Wrote: The offseason approach will be interesting.

They may not need a ton, but they have needs, regardless.  They also have a laughable payroll once Votto and Moose drop off the books.

If we get another winter of crying poor and bitching about payroll and resources, then there's no hope for this ownership group.  

(08-06-2023, 09:39 PM)samhain Wrote: The offseason approach will be interesting.

They may not need a ton, but they have needs, regardless.  They also have a laughable payroll once Votto and Moose drop off the books.

If we get another winter of crying poor and bitching about payroll and resources, then there's no hope for this ownership group.  

(08-07-2023, 04:02 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yep, Reds currently have $95 mill payroll, according to Spotrac.
Their payroll is basically near the minimum next year other than Votto's $20 mill. Next year is Votto's final year, but I believe it's a club option.
Ya gotta wonder if the Reds will actually pick up the option and let Votto play out his full contract or if this year is basically his final year.
I would think (hope?) this is Votto's last year and they will repurpose some money to go toward some pitching.

(08-10-2023, 08:10 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The Phillies traded a non-Top 100 batter in A+ who has no power for Michael Lorenzen and in 2 starts so far he's had a 8 innings 2 runs start and a No Hitter.

(08-10-2023, 10:39 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Buying rentals at the deadline is risky business. Despite the struggles we've had coming out of the trade deadline, I am still glad we didn't buy. We have 5 years ahead of us with all these young guys before we even need to pay for them. 

Hao-Yu Lee was the Phillies' 8th ranked prospect with a FV of 50. I think "no power" is a bit of an exaggeration. He has 15 HRs in 160 career games. That seems about average to me. Especially since several stops in the minors tend to be pitchers' ballparks more so than hitters parks like GABP.

The general equivalent from our system would have been maybe Sal Stewart. He's our 7th ranked prospect, 19 years old in A+, 2nd round pick in 2022. Also plays on the infield. 10 HR in 98 games, similar batting averages etc.

Would it have been worth it to trade Sal Stewart for 2 months of Michael Lorenzen? It's hard to say.

The team that has played the last 10 games does not look like they're one starting pitcher away from the World Series or even a playoff win. 

The last thing you want to do is be the LA Angels, who are on the fringe of the playoff picture, buy at the deadline and then lose 7 straight, essentially playing themselves out of playoff contention. Granted, they play in a much more competitive division than we do.

But I bet they are kicking themselves for not trading Ohtani right now. They could have set themselves up very nicely for the future. Instead, they are heading for losing him for free and still missing the playoffs.

Our situation is obviously not that dire, but if we did something like trade Marte (+ more, most likely) away for Dylan Cease, who has a 4.42 ERA this year and was just chased out of the 2nd inning in his start last Wednesday, I'd be a bit frustrated right now.

(08-10-2023, 12:03 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'm not "fit to be tied" that they didn't mortgage the farm for a couple rentals. As we have seen these rookies and younger players are lets be nice and say "streaky" at the plate.

Hopefully this is Votto's last hurrah, and we can free up money there. But I can't help but wonder what we really have in our pitching staff?

Greene and Ashcraft give me some hope but after that it starts tapering off. I believe Abbott could be a good un. But I need to see more. What will Lodolo be when he comes back? Is he for real? 

Williamson might be a decent #5 or Lively. But I'm not overjoyed with what we'll be bringing to the table next season from the mound. 

In short I'm just hoping they'll shore up the pitching staff this off season. And not just wing it HOPING. The rest of this season is a lets look and see what we have trial for me.

(08-10-2023, 12:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: We do have to acknowledge Votto is having a great shortened season from a HR perspective.
He has just a third of the PAs that Steer has, but he has 13 HRs. Steer has 5 more HRs but over 300 more PAs.
Votto definitely would be at or near 30 HRs if he had played the whole year going near the pace he is.
If he was, he'd be in the Top 10 in the league.

With that said, I think it's about time, or he can work out a huge discount to have one more season. Reds really have an opportunity to get some improvements this offseason, and Votto's $$ off the books will go a long way in being able to do that.

(08-10-2023, 02:50 PM)kevin Wrote: I don't agree Votto is having a great short season.  Is he performing for what he is being paid ?  NO.   He is batting under .200 which is bad.   Now Willie Mays and Hank Aaron once described what they considered a home run hitter. They said someone who hits 30 homers or more and bats .300 or close to .300 

I laugh when Voto gets a hit and Reds announcers rave about Votto.   How much are Reds paying for that one hit, and the answer is Too Much. 

And the idea that IF Votto wasn't old and IF Votto was like he was 12 years ago.  There came a time Pete Rose was batting around .200 and hits turned into weak ground outs.   It came time for Take A Seat Pete.  Now it is time for Let Go of Votto. 

I could also add the Reds were winning more games before Votto came back. His return forced others to take a seat when the young team was playing great.  I really don't want to see Votto back next year at the cheaper price, because it's time for him batting under . 200 to clear the way for the young players Reds have.