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+--- Thread: Why Such Hate for Tate? (/thread-6945.html)
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - SunsetBengal - 07-17-2016
(07-17-2016, 10:20 AM)jeremydc Wrote: How so?
He's been with the team a good while. He knows the playbook, has plenty of time/reps in the offense. While no one would ever think of him coming in and taking over a game, in the unfortunate event of an injury, he could step right in and the offense would not be limited in what they are able to run.
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - bengalguy71 - 07-17-2016
As the OP I will make my final comment.
First, it's not Tate's call on WHO the KR is. Redirect your hate at the coaches, who us couch coaches think we are smarter than anyway.
As far as a receiver, watch the tapes. Watch the condensed games since 2011. See what happens when he's targeted as a receiver. Otherwise, you have no credible evidence to support your critique.
I am semi-retired and also a guy who likes to get his money's worth out of my investments, and the $99.99 for Game Pass is no exception. Before pre-season starts, I will have watched every Bengals game from 2011 to present.
The few times he's been on the field and targeted, he's open much more than he's not.
If anything, I would say he is being used ass backwards in his roles. With the absence of Jones and Sanu I think he should be on the field more as a receiver as opposed to a KR.
I don't 'hate' anyone, but if you are going to take the stand that IF he were a good receiver, then he would be on the field more, that decision NOT to use him more at WR is being made by the same men who keep choosing to put him out there as a KR, time after time, season after season!
In all honesty, what are we doing hanging out here in this forum as couch coaches????? Out of all these forum members, there have to be many that live in the Cincinnati area. I live in Florida or I would participate, but why don't the ones in the area start flooding Katy Blackburn's email with coaching applications, making the same points we do in here. With all the logic and expertise, how can they NOT hire at least one of us???
Oh wait ............ the fact still remains that out of 48 years of franchise history, and only 5 playoff wins and no championships, the only common denominator in that span has been the Brown family! I guess it's back to square one!
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - bengalfan74 - 07-17-2016
(07-17-2016, 12:59 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Tate had his shot in 2014 and sucked. Royally.
He got 4 starts that year and produced 9/97 (10.8)/1 in those four starts. That translates to a full season of 36/389/4 in 16 starts, and that's as a #2 WR.
In 2014, he actually played 45.6% of the offensive snaps. If that's not getting a shot, I don't know what is. In that 45.6% of the time, he put up 17/193/1... so if he played 100% of the snaps at that rate, it'd be something like a 37/423/2 full season... which is right next to that 16 start projection I mentioned earlier.
- - - - - - - - -
Dude just isn't a good WR at all. He played in 16 games (10 starts) with Tom Brady at QB in 2010 and only put up 432 yards. If Tom Brady doesn't make you look good, nobody will. The Patriots ended up getting 31-year-old Deion Branch-midseason and he put up 700 yards in 9 starts. Tate was gone that offseason.
^This^
Tate is not a good WR he's a very average at best WR. He's a number 4 or 5
Tate's decision making improved last season, quite a bit. But up to that point at least once a game he'd make e really bad decision. Like everybody has said - fielding punts inside the 5, fielding line drive kickoffs in the back of the endzone and bringing them out. (It's not only the depth of a kickoff but the hang time as well). Running sideways or backwards on punts, the fumbles, and so on. Will this decision making stay good or will a bonehead decision rear it's ugly head at just the wrong time ?
Add in the fact that he's not explosive enough or has the good vision to be able to bust great returns here and there.
And he's very replaceable !
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - Go Cards - 07-17-2016
Bengals have definitely been loyal to Tate so hopefully it pays off finally.
For the record though, do not think Tate should return punts and do not think Pac Man should be returning kick offs.
Tate is more of a kick off guy that seeks the running lanes but without break away speed required to star that his 40 time actually suggests he possesses. But he holds onto the ball.
Jones is more of the psycho fearless juking side to side making people miss style that is perfect for punts.
For all the times I knock Jones, believe he is one of if not the best punt returner in the game.
Do not feel the same about Tates kick off returning ability though. But he usually gets the ball out to 20 or 25 without fumbling. Could be worse.
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - John Shaft - 07-17-2016
(07-17-2016, 09:00 AM)Trademark Wrote: I don't hate Tate, but the guy makes a lot of boneheaded playsFor example ? You did say "a lot".
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - John Shaft - 07-17-2016
Bengal got 99 problems but a lowly paid.back up role player #4 WR ain't one !
That is all.
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 07-17-2016
Tate is solid, i don't understand the Tater Haters either. He definately is not a great return man that is for sure
but he has good hands and doesn't turn the ball over, that is better than a great return man that puts the ball
on the ground.
When he has been given the chance as a receiver he has done okay, hell last season his catch against the Chiefs
was great and was the #1 Offensive play of the season according to NFL.com or whoever.
He disapointed me in the Playoff game against the Colts though as a receiver but everyone did besides Burkhead.
I am still hoping Alford gets his hands solid and becomes our Return man. He has great speed and explosiveness.
But if Adam is fresh he should be the guy cause he might be the best in the league.
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - John Shaft - 07-17-2016
Don't....know...how...long the Tate Haters can be kept at bay !
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 07-17-2016
(07-17-2016, 03:46 PM)John Shaft Wrote: Don't....know...how...long the Tate Haters can be kept at bay !
Only a matter of time...
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - Captain Happy Pants - 07-17-2016
We share a last name and I don't think he's lived up to it
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - Bilbo Saggins - 07-17-2016
Thoughts from last year:
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Tate-Hate
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - SunsetBengal - 07-17-2016
(07-17-2016, 07:32 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Thoughts from last year:
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Tate-Hate
So, where have you been, in all of this "gap" time??
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - Go Cards - 07-17-2016
Never hated but said some hateful things.
Just always felt he was upgradable.
But then they would have to be paid.
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - BengalChris - 07-17-2016
(07-17-2016, 03:14 PM)John Shaft Wrote: For example ? You did say "a lot".
Ask and you shall receive.
http://www.cincyjungle.com/cincinnati-bengals-new-england-patriots-2014/2014/10/6/6919507/bengals-brandon-tate-offers-excuse-for-returning-kicks-out-of-the
Quote:Bengals special teams coordinator Darrin Simmons told Brandon Tate that he can return it out of the endzone -- which he did... a lot. But if you've been given permission to do something, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a good idea.
With 1:17 remaining in the second quarter, Tate caught a New England Patriots kickoff six yards deep into the endzone. Instead of taking the knee, Tate returned it 15 yards to the Bengals nine-yard line...
http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/6/8/4409028/brandon-tate-is-a-virtual-lock-until-challenged-in-both-return-games
Quote:Perhaps if Tate didn't catch so many punts within the ten yard line, and take so many kickoffs out from nine yards deep in the endzone, Bengals fans would appreciate Tate a little more. But that's his own fault. He simply makes boneheaded mistakes. Including 7 fumbles in the last two years (but only two lost).
Tate's kickoff return yardage is nullified by the fact that he comes out of the end zone so many times. If you return a kick from 8 yards deep and get out to the 15 you are credited with a 23 yard return. But if you just take a knee your team gets the ball at the 20. Tate likes the 23 yard return more than the team's field position. That's what's wrong with Tate and he just keeps doing it again and again, year after year. He's even run through stop signs on kickoff returns.
It's not hate, it's can he please f'ing take a knee in the end zone and can he just let the ball go in the end zone on deep punts?
People who pointing out this kind of play aren't haters, they are being far more logical in their examination of how the team's players are performing. This isn't peewee football where such mistakes are probably common. If you are one of only 32 return specialists in the world then you better be as expert as they come.
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - GreenCornBengal - 07-17-2016
(07-17-2016, 09:08 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Tate's kickoff return yardage is nullified by the fact that he comes out of the end zone so many times. If you return a kick from 8 yards deep and get out to the 15 you are credited with a 23 yard return. But if you just take a knee your team gets the ball at the 20. Tate likes the 23 yard return more than the team's field position. That's what's wrong with Tate and he just keeps doing it again and again, year after year. He's even run through stop signs on kickoff returns.
It's not hate, it's can he please f'ing take a knee in the end zone and can he just let the ball go in the end zone on deep punts?
Bengals have the 9th best starting field position on drives starting from kick offs.
So while this may be somewhat true about Tate, your argument doesn't translate to the stats.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsoff2015
Granted, we do have imo one of the best special teams coaches in the league... which has a lot to do with that.
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - BengalChris - 07-17-2016
(07-17-2016, 09:14 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Bengals have the 9th best starting field position on drives starting from kick offs.
So while this may be somewhat true about Tate, your argument doesn't translate to the stats.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsoff2015
Granted, we do have imo one of the best special teams coaches in the league... which has a lot to do with that.
Just think how much better it would be if he took a knee on those deep kickoffs?
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - bengalguy71 - 07-17-2016
(07-17-2016, 09:14 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Bengals have the 9th best starting field position on drives starting from kick offs.
So while this may be somewhat true about Tate, your argument doesn't translate to the stats.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestatsoff2015
Granted, we do have imo one of the best special teams coaches in the league... which has a lot to do with that.
Again I say, if only we could coach!
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - bfine32 - 07-17-2016
To all those questioning Tate's decision making I will share this with you:
A couple years ago I listened to a Texan's return guy. He said the decision is often based on the blocking scheme called. For instance if the scheme is designed to clear the left side of the field and the kick goes to the right; he is usually not returning it because he knows the blocking is just not there. Conversely, if that kick goes to the left; he's returning it regardless.
Point is: We just don't know if the decision was good or not. We just get to judge after the result.
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - GreenCornBengal - 07-17-2016
(07-17-2016, 09:17 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Just think how much better it would be if he took a knee on those deep kickoffs?
At the cost of a fumble here and there. That is what happens when you replace Tate. Do you now fully understand the conundrum? lol
If I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure we got points on the board in the Seattle game because they botched a KR.. I could have the wrong game, but it seems familiar. That hasn't happened to us in a while, and let me tell you, nothing brings the air out of the stadium like a fumbled KR.
RE: Why Such Hate for Tate? - BengalChris - 07-17-2016
(07-17-2016, 09:30 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: At the cost of a fumble here and there. That is what happens when you replace Tate. Do you now fully understand the conundrum? lol
If I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure we got points on the board in the Seattle game because they botched a KR.. I could have the wrong game, but it seems familiar. That hasn't happened to us in a while, and let me tell you, nothing brings the air out of the stadium like a fumbled KR.
Not every rookie is fumble prone ya know. Can't convince me there hasn't been better return guys available in the last 2 drafts. Besides, Tate has fumbled 7 times (2 lost) on returns since joining the Bengals.
With the ball coming out to the 25 this year, maybe all of this will be moot. But I can tell you that if Tate returns a KO this year from 8 yards deep, I'll be writing Marv.