(01-24-2018, 12:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I never saw Klu or Pinson play, so I will not include or exclude either of them.  I have been a fan since 1973 and I have to go with Johnny Bench mainly because of his combination of offense and defense.  Back in the '70's teams stole a lot more bases than they do now and Johnny Bench absolutely shut down running games.  He won 10 Gold Gloves, but here is a really amazing stat.  Bench caught every inning of every game in four Word series (23 total games) and only allowed ONE stolen base by an opposing team.

Joe Morgan does not get the credit he deserves because of the dead ball era he played in.  In 1976 he only his 27 home runs but that was good for FIFTH in the league and he was first in the league in slugging percentage.  That same year he finished 2nd in the league in stolen bases.  As far as I know Willie Mays is the only other player to rank that high in both categories in the same season.  Also Joe Morgan drew walks before it was cool to draw walks.  He led the league in walks 4 times and finished in the top 5 FIFTEEN TIMES.  PLus 5 gold gloves and 2 MVPs.

And finally, if Eric Davis had remained healthy he might have been the best ever.  The guy had insane raw talent.  In '86 he finished 2nd in stolen bases and 3rd in slugging percentage.  The next year he was 2nd in slugging and 4th in stolen bases.  His 27 HR in '86 are the most ever by a player with 80 stolen bases, and back in 86 twenty-seven HR was good for fifth in the league.

(02-13-2018, 09:57 PM)grampahol Wrote: The entire notion of the greatest of all time is and always will be misleading until time stops occurring since there's no way of knowing who will come along sometime in the future. The only metric we have to go by is the past and present . The future hasn't quite arrived yet.
I have my favorites, but favorite of all time?  I'll let you know soon as the universe disappears and all time ceases to exist. Don't hold your breath.

(02-13-2018, 09:57 PM)grampahol Wrote: The entire notion of the greatest of all time is and always will be misleading until time stops occurring since there's no way of knowing who will come along sometime in the future. The only metric we have to go by is the past and present . The future hasn't quite arrived yet.
I have my favorites, but favorite of all time?  I'll let you know soon as the universe disappears and all time ceases to exist. Don't hold your breath.

(09-16-2017, 02:08 PM)firstand10 Wrote: TED KLUSZEWSKI!

(12-01-2017, 12:53 PM)firstand10 Wrote: KLU!

(01-24-2018, 03:22 PM)firstand10 Wrote: The best REDS player ever? TED Kluzewski!

(02-20-2018, 09:35 PM)Stewy Wrote: Votto isn't close.  There's a dozen players from the 70's ahead of him.

(02-21-2018, 06:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not saying Votto is the best, but there are not 12 players from the 70's better than Joey.

He has finished in the top 7 in MVP voting 6 times.  For comparison sake Joe Morgan only finished in the top 10 five times, Johnny Bench only four times.

He has led the league in on base percentage 8 times.  His career percentage is 1st among all active players and 12th in MLB history.  Votto and Barry Bonds are the only two in the top 20 of the career list who played in the last 50 years.

He has finished in the top 10 in slugging percentage 7 times and his career percentage ranks 5th among all active players.

He has led the league in OPS (SLUG% + OB%) twice and finished in the top FIVE 7 times.  His career OPS (.969) is second among active players only 7 points behind Mike Trout.

He has won a Gold Glove for his defensive play.

Votto is putting together a Hall of fame career.  I just don't understand the lack of respect he gets from some Reds fans.  They are watching one of the best players of this generation.

(02-21-2018, 11:14 PM)Stewy Wrote: Sheesh - pull a little exaggeration out and stat man spews all over the screen.  *rolls eyes*  I'd say I missed you Fred, but I'd be lying.