I can't believe nobody has said Chris Sabo.


Loved that ugly bastard.

KLU!

Votto has surpassed Larkin for me.

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Kal Daniels; duh


On a serious note I always loved rob dibble

The great Corey Patterson.

I never saw Klu or Pinson play, so I will not include or exclude either of them.  I have been a fan since 1973 and I have to go with Johnny Bench mainly because of his combination of offense and defense.  Back in the '70's teams stole a lot more bases than they do now and Johnny Bench absolutely shut down running games.  He won 10 Gold Gloves, but here is a really amazing stat.  Bench caught every inning of every game in four Word series (23 total games) and only allowed ONE stolen base by an opposing team.

Joe Morgan does not get the credit he deserves because of the dead ball era he played in.  In 1976 he only hit 27 home runs but that was good for FIFTH in the league and he was first in the league in slugging percentage.  That same year he finished 2nd in the league in stolen bases.  As far as I know Willie Mays is the only other player to rank that high in both categories in the same season.  Also Joe Morgan drew walks before it was cool to draw walks.  He led the league in walks 4 times and finished in the top 5 FIFTEEN TIMES.  Plus 5 gold gloves and 2 MVPs.

And finally, if Eric Davis had remained healthy he might have been the best ever.  The guy had insane raw talent.  In '86 he finished 2nd in stolen bases and 3rd in slugging percentage.  The next year he was 2nd in slugging and 4th in stolen bases.  His 27 HR in '86 are the most ever by a player with 80 stolen bases, and back in 86 twenty-seven HR was good for fifth in the league.

(01-24-2018, 12:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I never saw Klu or Pinson play, so I will not include or exclude either of them.  I have been a fan since 1973 and I have to go with Johnny Bench mainly because of his combination of offense and defense.  Back in the '70's teams stole a lot more bases than they do now and Johnny Bench absolutely shut down running games.  He won 10 Gold Gloves, but here is a really amazing stat.  Bench caught every inning of every game in four Word series (23 total games) and only allowed ONE stolen base by an opposing team.

Joe Morgan does not get the credit he deserves because of the dead ball era he played in.  In 1976 he only his 27 home runs but that was good for FIFTH in the league and he was first in the league in slugging percentage.  That same year he finished 2nd in the league in stolen bases.  As far as I know Willie Mays is the only other player to rank that high in both categories in the same season.  Also Joe Morgan drew walks before it was cool to draw walks.  He led the league in walks 4 times and finished in the top 5 FIFTEEN TIMES.  PLus 5 gold gloves and 2 MVPs.

And finally, if Eric Davis had remained healthy he might have been the best ever.  The guy had insane raw talent.  In '86 he finished 2nd in stolen bases and 3rd in slugging percentage.  The next year he was 2nd in slugging and 4th in stolen bases.  His 27 HR in '86 are the most ever by a player with 80 stolen bases, and back in 86 twenty-seven HR was good for fifth in the league.

I made a notation on my calendar to mark the occasion because I agree with everything you said.

Johnny Bench - Best
Eric Davis - Favorite by far
Jose Rijo - Favorite Pitcher

All time favorite under the radar guys - Cesar Geronimo, Sean Casey, Paul O'Neal, and John Franco

Honorable Mention - Joe Morgan, Tony Perez, Barry Larkin, Jr., Pete, Joey, and Don Gullet

The best REDS player ever? TED Kluzewski!

Best Player? ;;;;;;;; Ted Kluzewski!
My favorite player ?;;;;;;;;;; Johnny Bench

The entire notion of the greatest of all time is and always will be misleading until time stops occurring since there's no way of knowing who will come along sometime in the future. The only metric we have to go by is the past and present . The future hasn't quite arrived yet.
I have my favorites, but favorite of all time? I'll let you know soon as the universe disappears and all time ceases to exist. Don't hold your breath.

(02-13-2018, 09:57 PM)grampahol Wrote: The entire notion of the greatest of all time is and always will be misleading until time stops occurring since there's no way of knowing who will come along sometime in the future. The only metric we have to go by is the past and present . The future hasn't quite arrived yet.
I have my favorites, but favorite of all time?  I'll let you know soon as the universe disappears and all time ceases to exist. Don't hold your breath.

Is it remotely possible that when people say greatest of all time, they just might be talking about greatest all time...so far?

(02-13-2018, 09:57 PM)grampahol Wrote: The entire notion of the greatest of all time is and always will be misleading until time stops occurring since there's no way of knowing who will come along sometime in the future. The only metric we have to go by is the past and present . The future hasn't quite arrived yet.
I have my favorites, but favorite of all time?  I'll let you know soon as the universe disappears and all time ceases to exist. Don't hold your breath.

Everyone already assumes that "greatest of all time" is up to this point in time.

Well, almost everyone.

(09-16-2017, 02:08 PM)firstand10 Wrote: TED KLUSZEWSKI!

(12-01-2017, 12:53 PM)firstand10 Wrote: KLU!

(01-24-2018, 03:22 PM)firstand10 Wrote: The best REDS player ever? TED Kluzewski!

Klu had a great 4 year run ('53-'56) but he is not the best Red ever.  He only led the league in HR once and RBI once.  He only had 4 All Star seasons and never won an MVP.

Best - Bench - longevity in a Reds Uni - the defense - clutch clutch clutch

Favorite - Bench

Votto isn't close. There's a dozen players from the 70's ahead of him.

(02-20-2018, 09:35 PM)Stewy Wrote: Votto isn't close.  There's a dozen players from the 70's ahead of him.

I am not saying Votto is the best, but there are not 12 players from the 70's better than Joey.

He has finished in the top 7 in MVP voting 6 times.  For comparison sake Joe Morgan only finished in the top 10 five times, Johnny Bench only four times.

He has led the league in on base percentage 8 times.  His career percentage is 1st among all active players and 12th in MLB history.  Votto and Barry Bonds are the only two in the top 20 of the career list who played in the last 50 years.

He has finished in the top 10 in slugging percentage 7 times and his career percentage ranks 5th among all active players.

He has led the league in OPS (SLUG% + OB%) twice and finished in the top FIVE 7 times.  His career OPS (.969) is second among active players only 7 points behind Mike Trout.

He has won a Gold Glove for his defensive play.

Votto is putting together a Hall of fame career.  I just don't understand the lack of respect he gets from some Reds fans.  They are watching one of the best players of this generation.

(02-21-2018, 06:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not saying Votto is the best, but there are not 12 players from the 70's better than Joey.

He has finished in the top 7 in MVP voting 6 times.  For comparison sake Joe Morgan only finished in the top 10 five times, Johnny Bench only four times.

He has led the league in on base percentage 8 times.  His career percentage is 1st among all active players and 12th in MLB history.  Votto and Barry Bonds are the only two in the top 20 of the career list who played in the last 50 years.

He has finished in the top 10 in slugging percentage 7 times and his career percentage ranks 5th among all active players.

He has led the league in OPS (SLUG% + OB%) twice and finished in the top FIVE 7 times.  His career OPS (.969) is second among active players only 7 points behind Mike Trout.

He has won a Gold Glove for his defensive play.

Votto is putting together a Hall of fame career.  I just don't understand the lack of respect he gets from some Reds fans.  They are watching one of the best players of this generation.

Sheesh - pull a little exaggeration out and stat man spews all over the screen.  *rolls eyes*  I'd say I missed you Fred, but I'd be lying.

(02-21-2018, 11:14 PM)Stewy Wrote: Sheesh - pull a little exaggeration out and stat man spews all over the screen.  *rolls eyes*  I'd say I missed you Fred, but I'd be lying.

Sorry, this was not based on just the one post from you.  There has been a group of Reds fans who have disrespected Votto for a few years now. 

Love Votto but it can not be overlooked that he plays in a bandbox hitters park unlike the others being debated.

Plus they have basically shrunk the strike zone where it almost puts the ball on a tee.

Still love the guy, but taking Bench, Morgan, Rose, and Eric Davis all day over him.

But if making an all time team with all nine he is in.

Eric Davis is the one of the best players I have ever watched play the game though.

My team would be

C- Johnny Bench
1st- Joey Votto
2nd - Joe Morgan
SS - Barry Larkin
3rd - Pete Rose
RF - Ken Griffey Jr.
CF - Eric Davis
LF - George Foster

SP - Jose Rijo, Don Gullett, Tom Seaver, Cueto
RP's - John Franco, Dibble, Chapman,

These are the favorites that I watched. Obviously a Teddy Klu, Frank Robinson and others before my time maybe should be included. But just went with players that I watched play.

Jr in RF is odd and would have him in CF if he had played in Cincinnati earlier in his career. Want big George to be comfortable so left him in left and feel Jr is so good he could play all three OF spots.