(10-10-2017, 05:07 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: People outside of Cincy say the same thing about Dalton having AJ Green. 

(10-11-2017, 01:50 AM)Millhouse Wrote: And some in Cincy do as well... 

(10-10-2017, 09:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Newton was an MVP and made a Super Bowl run. Yes it was one year, but it's a hell of a lot more than Dalton has accomplished. And people love to bring up 2015 in Andy's favor, so it seems unfair to discount a standout season for other QBs.

(10-11-2017, 11:01 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: No doubt having a great WR helps ANY QB.

(10-11-2017, 11:26 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You're highlighting 1 year in a 7 year career and then try to excuse it by propping up some strawman about Andy fans bringing up 2015.

Andy has a career rating of 89.0. Cam has a career rating of 86.7.

Cam has a career completion % of 58.9. Dalton has completed 62.9%. Anything in the 50's is bad by today's standards. Dalton has been better in every facet you normally judge QB play by. Cam has better rushing stats. That's really about it.

Also, I've seen some anti-Andy guys on here claim that you judge QB's by their floor. If that's the case, Cam had a season with a 75.8 rating. Can you imagine if Andy had such a season? Andy's worst post-rookie season ended with an 83.5 rating. With a glut of injuries at receiver. Yet Andy got roasted for that...and it was a whopping 7.7 points better than Cam's 2016 season.

(10-11-2017, 11:31 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: True, but having great coaching helps other QB's. Or being surrounded by good weapons. Or having a great o-line and/or run game. Dalton literally just has AJ Green right now. AJ Green and steaming piles of crap just about everywhere else.

AJ Green doesn't make up for everything else being subpar or worse for most of Dalton's career. If anything, it makes things rougher because Dalton has to force it to his one talented guy who will inevitably be heavily covered.

(10-13-2017, 01:12 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Also just tonight he put up 53.8% completion / 239 yards (4.6 AVG) / 1 TD, 3 INT / 48.5 QB Rating in a loss.

(10-13-2017, 10:02 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: It's always nice when someone else sees it too. Outside of AJ Green, the closest thing to a great weapon Dalton has had was Eifert and he's going to miss the rest of the season again. Everyone gets wrapped up talking about all of these incredible weapons Dalton has, but it's simply not true. Then they want to use the round players were drafted in like that matters. Ced and Fisher help prove that.

Dalton has helped to elevate the play of all of his receivers except Green. When you look at their numbers, their best years or second best years have been with Dalton. He's a good QB. I have no idea why some of his own team's fans try so hard to tear him down. No matter how you break down the guys numbers, he's a good QB. Instead, he puts up a 145 QB rating in a game and we have to nitpick a missed throw here or there, or he missed seeing a receiver. He plays one of the top defenses in the entire league and his elite receiver helped turn the ball over 3 times, but it's okay Green did that because he put up monster numbers. Everyone wants to harp on a bad decision by Dalton that was almost picked off.

Then of course we have to hear about the Ravens game. Yeah, he threw 4 picks. Unfortunately, it happens to every QB. Ben just threw 5 include 2 pick 6s. Of course that doesn't count because it doesn't help advance the Bengals fans narrative that their QB sucks.

(10-13-2017, 10:02 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: It's always nice when someone else sees it too. Outside of AJ Green, the closest thing to a great weapon Dalton has had was Eifert and he's going to miss the rest of the season again. Everyone gets wrapped up talking about all of these incredible weapons Dalton has, but it's simply not true. Then they want to use the round players were drafted in like that matters. Ced and Fisher help prove that.

Dalton has helped to elevate the play of all of his receivers except Green. When you look at their numbers, their best years or second best years have been with Dalton. He's a good QB. I have no idea why some of his own team's fans try so hard to tear him down. No matter how you break down the guys numbers, he's a good QB. Instead, he puts up a 145 QB rating in a game and we have to nitpick a missed throw here or there, or he missed seeing a receiver. He plays one of the top defenses in the entire league and his elite receiver helped turn the ball over 3 times, but it's okay Green did that because he put up monster numbers. Everyone wants to harp on a bad decision by Dalton that was almost picked off.

Then of course we have to hear about the Ravens game. Yeah, he threw 4 picks. Unfortunately, it happens to every QB. Ben just threw 5 include 2 pick 6s. Of course that doesn't count because it doesn't help advance the Bengals fans narrative that their QB sucks.

(10-13-2017, 10:12 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: It is sad that there are so few people who know that Dalton hasn't had much to work with since he's been here. 2013 and 2015 were his only two years with good weapons around him. He's never really had a run game, and only 2 years where he had a solid #2 WR in Marvin Jones. People just gobbles up Hobson's hype articles about people like Core, Malone, Cobi Hamilton, Kumerow, Binns, and probably a few other people I'm forgetting about.

(10-13-2017, 10:19 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Anyone still putting Dalton ahead of Wentz...?

(10-13-2017, 10:19 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Anyone still putting Dalton ahead of Wentz...?

(10-13-2017, 10:24 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They'll argue that Wentz hasn't done it long enough...but I certainly think that if I was starting a team I'd want Wentz ahead of Dalton.

I think a Bengals message board is the only place you'd see Dalton ranked ahead of Wentz.

(10-13-2017, 10:24 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They'll argue that Wentz hasn't done it long enough...but I certainly think that if I was starting a team I'd want Wentz ahead of Dalton.

I think a Bengals message board is the only place you'd see Dalton ranked ahead of Wentz.

(10-13-2017, 10:19 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Anyone still putting Dalton ahead of Wentz...?

(10-13-2017, 10:23 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Still too early to tell, but if Wentz keeps it up then he's defiantly better. His rookie year he was mediocre, but so far this year he's been on fire.

(10-13-2017, 10:24 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They'll argue that Wentz hasn't done it long enough...but I certainly think that if I was starting a team I'd want Wentz ahead of Dalton.

I think a Bengals message board is the only place you'd see Dalton ranked ahead of Wentz.

(10-13-2017, 10:36 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Have him do it for two years and then there's no question I will put him ahead of Dalton. Heck, he hasn't even done it for a single year yet.




Yeah, I am not ready to crown Wentz after 6 games of this season. People were ready to crown him a franchise QB after 4 games last year when he put up a 103.5 QB rating.. and then he put up a 72.5 QB Rating over the other 12 games to finish with a 79.3 QB Rating for the whole season.

Dalton had a 80.4 QB Rating his rookie year.

People lift up Wentz for 6 games, yet forget Dalton's 13 games of 106.2 QB Rating in 2015 and 116.2 QB Rating in the 3 games since Lazor took over.

Dalton was legitimately an MVP candidate in 2015 before he broke his thumb, and then got saddled with what we now know as probably THE worst OC in the entire league. When he got fired, he went right back to an extremely high level of play.

(10-13-2017, 10:39 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Good points.

Progression over a career is a key factor too. Does a QB improve from Year 1 to Year 2 to Year 3.

I honestly don't think Dalton has progressed much from his rookie year. He came into the Pro's and had a nice rookie season. It's probably more on coaching than Dalton though.