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RE: Elite qbs - bengalguy71 - 01-13-2020
(01-12-2020, 06:23 PM)BengalsFan1986 Wrote: That’s fine. He’s more than likely making it into the Hall of Fame, but we can say he also isn’t elite.
The ONLY reason he may make the HOF is because of his name and he won 2 SBs.
Which, to me, both qualifications fall short.
If Dilfer and Johnson had won another SB then they should also be in the HOF??
RE: Elite qbs - Nicomo Cosca - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 11:48 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Exactly !
As has been stated several times: Can you win without a top shelf QB ? sure. But your margin for error goes way down. Winning it all with Joe Blow at QB is the exception to the rule.
Any chance at sustained success requires more at the most important position.
And this whole take 3 years building the team then get your QB is just nuts ! So how long can you maintain paying this entire All pro team ? How you gonna draft this elite QB drafting toward the bottom with your 10-6 record ? What if somebody else drafts your guy ?
Stop. You’re making too much sense! LOL
RE: Elite qbs - BengalsFan1986 - 01-13-2020
I don’t think anyone is arguing that the only player you need is an elite QB and if you have one you automatically win the Super Bowl. You absolutely need other solid or elite players at other positions to win the whole thing. At this point though, I’d take my chances on drafting an elite QB while we have the # 1 overall pick in the draft instead of trading down and trying to get an elite OL, an elite LB, and an elite other player with our 3 first round picks that we somehow get in this hypothetical situation.
If we aren’t picking number 1 this season or if Joe Burrow doesn’t have the season he has had this year, we are probably having a different conversation, and maybe building up other aspects of the team makes more sense. At this point though, we have an opportunity to draft a potential difference maker at the most important position in the game. Will we win the Super Bowl next year because we draft a QB? Highly doubt it. But if Burrow pans out, and we get a few more pieces in place next season, I see no reason we can’t get back in the conversation in a year or two.
RE: Elite qbs - Synric - 01-13-2020
Let's not pretend The Titans didnt trade up and take Marcus Mariota. They built that team around their #2OA pick...No Mariota didnt work out and they picked up Ryan Tannehill out of the dumpster and hes playing better than Mariota.
But fact is Tennessee built that team around their QB. If you have a chance to get a franchise QB you do it. It didnt work out for Titans in that regard but they made the gamble because you have too.
RE: Elite qbs - fredtoast - 01-13-2020
No way in hell Eli Manning deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.
In his career he finished in the top ten in passer rating ONE time (7th in 2011). But he did lead the league in interceptions THREE times. He only posted a winning record as a starter 7 times in his 16 year career, and his career passer rating (84.1) is lower than Dalton's (87.5)
RE: Elite qbs - XenoMorph - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 03:30 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Trust me, Garoppolo, is already a great QB.
he looked vastly overpaid till the game vs us this season
RE: Elite qbs - BengalsFan1986 - 01-13-2020
I really don’t want to argue whether Eli Manning belongs in the hall of fame. More pundits than not feel he will be there, but I don’t care either way. We already took him out of the elite category. The point still stands that more Super Bowls are won by teams with elite QBs than are won by teams without elite QBs. I’d rather have an elite QB than 3 elite position players.
RE: Elite qbs - Nicomo Cosca - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 07:05 PM)BengalsFan1986 Wrote: I really don’t want to argue whether Eli Manning belongs in the hall of fame. More pundits than not feel he will be there, but I don’t care either way. We already took him out of the elite category. The point still stands that more Super Bowls are won by teams with elite QBs than are won by teams without elite QBs. I’d rather have an elite QB than 3 elite position players.
Completely agree with the last sentence. We’ve had 3 elite position players at once (Whit, AJ, Geno) where did it get us?
It’s a QB driven league. So much has to go right to overcome not having a top QB.
RE: Elite qbs - SladeX - 01-13-2020
Well, OUR team needs a QB who is elite enough to overcome the degenerates running the show.
Now that Marv is gone, way in hell they can build a team good enough to reach a SB with a game manager.
It would seem from what I can tell/read a great QB is the best way to reach multiple SBs.
RE: Elite qbs - Destro - 01-13-2020
Tannehill was considered mediocre and was run out of Miami. Now he beats NE and Baltimore, after taking the place of a 2OA, ( the first overall that year, Winston, is an INT machine ). Miami competed for being the bottom of the league. Of the huge 2018 QB class, only Jackson and Allen made playoff appearances. This, and the items mentioned in this thread, tell me the QB position is a wild draft guess, then without great support, can mean little.
RE: Elite qbs - Fan_in_Kettering - 01-14-2020
(01-13-2020, 09:53 PM)SladeX Wrote: Well, OUR team needs a QB who is elite enough to overcome the degenerates running the show.
Such a player does not exist; I'm sorry to say that. Drafting Joe Burrow and not upgrading anything else -- which is what I fear the Bengals will do -- might get Cincinnati to four or five wins instead of two with Andy Dalton and Ryan Finley.
RE: Elite qbs - Nicomo Cosca - 01-14-2020
(01-14-2020, 09:31 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Such a player does not exist; I'm sorry to say that. Drafting Joe Burrow and not upgrading anything else -- which is what I fear the Bengals will do -- might get Cincinnati to four or five wins instead of two with Andy Dalton and Ryan Finley.
What does this even mean? Is Mike Brown going to sell all of our other draft picks to the highest bidder or something?
It might not happen the way you think it should, but of course we’ll try make other upgrades. Man do people love to parrot weird shit here sometimes...
RE: Elite qbs - bengalguy71 - 01-14-2020
(01-14-2020, 11:57 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: What does this even mean? Is Mike Brown going to sell all of our other draft picks to the highest bidder or something?
It might not happen the way you think it should, but of course we’ll try make other upgrades. Man do people love to parrot weird shit here sometimes...
He's not saying that at all.
Of course they will draft Burrow, and IF MB just stays in his office and naps and let's Taylor and Co run the show then there is a chance what FIK said, WON'T happen.
But, I believe, what he is saying is the same thing I've said over and over. Until this franchise shows me something different, all we can do is look at the track record here since 1991.
Hope for the best and expect the worst!
RE: Elite qbs - Nicomo Cosca - 01-14-2020
(01-14-2020, 12:47 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: He's not saying that at all.
Of course they will draft Burrow, and IF MB just stays in his office and naps and let's Taylor and Co run the show then there is a chance what FIK said, WON'T happen.
But, I believe, what he is saying is the same thing I've said over and over. Until this franchise shows me something different, all we can do is look at the track record here since 1991.
Hope for the best and expect the worst!
Nah, he’s basically saying nothing at all. And so are you.
RE: Elite qbs - J24 - 01-14-2020
(01-14-2020, 09:31 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Such a player does not exist; I'm sorry to say that. Drafting Joe Burrow and not upgrading anything else -- which is what I fear the Bengals will do -- might get Cincinnati to four or five wins instead of two with Andy Dalton and Ryan Finley.
If the defense plays like they did at the end of the season and the running game does the same then the sky is the limit for us. Especially if we resign AJ and Jonah is who we think he is.
RE: Elite qbs - JS-Steelerfan - 01-18-2020
(01-12-2020, 08:36 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I think an elite QB give you a better chance at longer sustained success. For example in the AFC for the past 17 years prior to this year you couldn't watch the divisional round without the name Manning, Brady, or Roethlisberger.
Forget the divisional round. One of those guys has been in the AFC Championship game 17 of the last 18 years. And 7 of those games featured 2 of the 3.
And as for the Super Bowl, 16 of the last 18 have featured one of those guys, and they have a record of 10-6 in those games.
And this doesn't even consider the elite NFC quarterbacks who have played in the big game as well.
I think it's safe to say the "Foles" model of success is the exception rather than the rule.
RE: Elite qbs - grampahol - 01-18-2020
Anyone forget we still have Ryan Findley on the team? Suppose Burrow gets us to the SB, gets hurt in the 4th Q and Findley tosses a lucky one and wins it? THEN WHAT?
RE: Elite qbs - J24 - 01-19-2020
(01-12-2020, 08:36 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I think an elite QB give you a better chance at longer sustained success. For example in the AFC for the past 17 years prior to this year you couldn't watch the divisional round without the name Manning, Brady, or Roethlisberger.
Except Roethlisberger isn't an elite QB, Brady wasn't for his first 5 seasons, and Peyton won a Superbowl with a season of 9TDs to 17NT. The you need an elite QB in the playoffs is a big myth.
Now of course it's not a bad thing to have one but you don't need one.
RE: Elite qbs - Nicomo Cosca - 01-19-2020
(01-19-2020, 02:12 AM)J24 Wrote: Except Roethlisberger isn't an elite QB, Brady wasn't for his first 5 seasons, and Peyton won a Superbowl with a season of 6 TDs to 15 INT. The you need an elite QB in the playoffs is a big myth.
Now of course it's not a bad thing to have one but you don't need one.
LOL
All 3 are 1st ballot HoFers.
RE: Elite qbs - J24 - 01-19-2020
(01-19-2020, 03:04 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: LOL
All 3 are 1st ballot HoFers.
1.) Ben shouldn't be infact he was God awful in 2008 when Pitt won a Superbowl he was a bottom 5 QB that season. He has the worst QB rating ever for a Superbowl winning QB (2005) and he single handedly blew the 2010 Superbowl for the Steelers against the Packers. He has lost two playoff games to Tim Tebow & Blake Bortles. The guy is simply overrated.
2.) Brady was a game manager 2001 he averaged 194 yards a game that season which was 24th in the league that season.
3.) Peyton Manning was washed in 2015 9 TDs to 17 INT. The only reason why Denver won those Superbowls is because they had a great defense.