(02-23-2023, 11:00 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What is likely most impressive about Volson's ability to win and hold the starting LG job as a rookie, is when you consider that he came from a non-FBS school and played for an offense that was overwhelmingly run heavy.

In 15 games in 2021 NDSU attempted a total of 257 passes (27.4% out of 935 plays).  Sure, Volson took some lumps early on as he caught up to the speed and complexities of the NFL game. Then, he grew into the role, and even showed some times of dominance.  If this guy improves on the same trajectory that he did as a rookie, he will likely be a star in the NFL.  

I would have no problem with Volson getting a look at RT this offseason.  However that does create a void at the LG spot, again.  Does the team really want to shuffle multiple positions again, or would they rather keep the interior OL in tact with Volson, Karras and Cappa?  Conventional logic says that it's easier to fix one position than two.

(02-18-2023, 10:52 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am sure people's first reaction to any mention of Volson being moved from his LG position is bound to bring some venom.  Hear me out:

Volson has exceptional length.  He played RT more than any other position at NDSU.  He showed how quickly he could adapt to playing LG and had a really good rookie season.  He has probably added 10 pounds or so since joining the Bengals, putting him at 6'7" and 325 lbs.  He has nearly 34" arms as well and huge 10.5" mitts.

So, now you are asking...."Who is going to be the LG?".  Well, here are a couple guys that project to be available early in the 2nd round that look like really good prospects:

Rank
36
Steve Avila
Steve Avila
TCU · IOL · Senior (RS)
Avila is a physically imposing guard prospect with quick feet and power. In pass protection, he is quick out of his stance, chops his feet and delivers a strong two-hand punch. He anchors easily and looks for work when he's uncovered. He is very aware and has a nasty streak. In the run game, he runs his feet on contact and drives opponents off the line of scrimmage. He does a good job staying attached to blocks. If he loses his hand placement, he is quick to replace and recover. He is sudden as a puller and can unload when he stays on a single track. He has some issues when he has to adjust and redirect his feet in space. Overall, I love the size and temperament Avila possesses. He's going to be a solid starting guard right away at the next level.

Rank
37
O'Cyrus Torrence
O'Cyrus Torrence
Florida · IOL · Senior
Torrence is a massive offensive guard with ideal instincts and play strength. In pass protection, he can bend his knees and play with balance. He has an immediate anchor and provides plenty of space for his QB to climb up into the pocket. He has strong hands to latch and control. He is very aware versus twists and stunts. In the run game, he can create movement with defenders over his nose and has surprising quickness to reach and cut off foes. He is quick to the second level, but he struggles to redirect and adjust in space. That should improve if he can drop 10-to-15 pounds. Teams that want to run downhill and create a firm interior in the pass game will really appreciate Torrence.

This could allow the Bengals to acquire some extra draft capital by trading out of the first round and choose one of these guys in the 2nd round.  

I am just spit balling, but I really like the idea of giving him a shot at RT, his natural position.  Thoughts?

(02-24-2023, 05:58 PM)OSUfan Wrote: He played outstanding at LG and I would not disrupt that. What I would consider is drafting a LT, preferably Anton Harrison, and then having Jackson Carman compete with Collins for the RT position. I believe that Carman showed that he plays better in space than he does on the interior of the line and from the eye test was an upgrade over Jonah at LT.

(02-24-2023, 08:08 PM)ochocincos Wrote: "Outstanding" is definitely far from the truth, or at least subjective based on your definition of the word.
Maybe "outstanding" if you're talking just being a rookie Day 3 pick who came from FCS.
But in regard to his actual performance for a starter, it was terrible for the first 1-2 months, and just ok by the end.
He's not a liability, but he's arguably the worst starter on the team when La'el Collins and Jonah Williams are healthy and performing at their normal levels.

The problem with Williams and Collins are health concerns, remainder of their contracts, and how consistent they can be at times.
Jonah has snaps of absolute brilliance but does allow a handful of sacks/pressures.
That's why when you look at things like PFF he is rated higher than some would expect - his highs and lows balance out, but most fans tend to really just notice the lows.

(02-24-2023, 08:51 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Yes when I say outstanding I am speaking of as a rookie coming from an FCS school and pretty much learning a new position at the NFL level. You could watch him improve through the entire season and he has a great mentality for the task at hand.

When it comes to sacks given up 2020 was his best season with only 3 sacks but that was in only just over 600 snaps. '21 was 9 given up and last season he led the league with 12, which I guess you could call a handful for sure. Be it health or whatever we wish to attribute it to that is not getting the job done...period. At risk is your franchise QB. In less than 1000 snaps last season Collins gave up 5 sacks and had his lowest grade of any season outside of '16.

I have no problem looking to replace Williams or Collins.

(02-23-2023, 03:57 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Remember guys, our tackles has to block Myles Garret somehow.

(02-23-2023, 11:00 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What is likely most impressive about Volson's ability to win and hold the starting LG job as a rookie, is when you consider that he came from a non-FBS school and played for an offense that was overwhelmingly run heavy.

In 15 games in 2021 NDSU attempted a total of 257 passes (27.4% out of 935 plays).  Sure, Volson took some lumps early on as he caught up to the speed and complexities of the NFL game. Then, he grew into the role, and even showed some times of dominance.  If this guy improves on the same trajectory that he did as a rookie, he will likely be a star in the NFL.  

I would have no problem with Volson getting a look at RT this offseason.  However that does create a void at the LG spot, again.  Does the team really want to shuffle multiple positions again, or would they rather keep the interior OL in tact with Volson, Karras and Cappa?  Conventional logic says that it's easier to fix one position than two.

(02-24-2023, 10:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I get it, and it's why I've called for adding another OT in the offseason, unless Volson would be moved to RT obviously.
I'm willing to give Volson more time to get into that "good starter", and I don't mind if he starts another couple more years.
As we've said, OT needs to get figured out.
Do that first and then potentially look to replace Volson.

(02-25-2023, 10:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: PFF has it as 883 total snaps, with 323 pass blocking and 560 run blocking.  Not sure which is right?  

It isn't as bad as people make it out to be.  Pass blocked about 37% of the snaps.  

He was incredible his senior year at NDSU playing RT.  He had 323 pass blocking snaps, had no sacks, and only gave up one hit.  

I keep coming back to Adeniji in comparison to Volson for RT.  (I know no one wants to go with Adeniji, but hear me out).  

Adeniji was forced in to some snaps at G, not the position he played his entire career in college.  He struggled BIG TIME.  He was flat out awful as a guard.  He played better at OT but really got abused in the AFCCG.  (To be fair, Jones abuses just about everyone).  But Adeniji was better at OT than guard.  No debate there.  Now, why can't the same be true for Volson?  He has already proven to be solid at LG, but if he can be even better at RT (his natural position), the Bengals might have found a real diamond in the rough.  At the very least, I would see him as a serious upgrade to Collins in pass protection.  

(02-25-2023, 12:49 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I would be curious to see where you feel Jackson Carman fits in? I personally feel he is meant to play on the edge in space and from the small sample we got in the playoffs I believe he could be a legit long term RT. Given the situation he was thrown into I felt he showed very well at LT. I know he played LT at the collegiate level but I saw him as an NFL RT since his senior season. 

The guy I have high hopes for was D'Ante Smith. I really felt he had a core skillset that could be developed into a high quality OT at the NFL level.

(02-25-2023, 10:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: PFF has it as 883 total snaps, with 323 pass blocking and 560 run blocking.  Not sure which is right?  

It isn't as bad as people make it out to be.  Pass blocked about 37% of the snaps.  

He was incredible his senior year at NDSU playing RT.  He had 323 pass blocking snaps, had no sacks, and only gave up one hit.  

I keep coming back to Adeniji in comparison to Volson for RT.  (I know no one wants to go with Adeniji, but hear me out).  

Adeniji was forced in to some snaps at G, not the position he played his entire career in college.  He struggled BIG TIME.  He was flat out awful as a guard.  He played better at OT but really got abused in the AFCCG.  (To be fair, Jones abuses just about everyone).  But Adeniji was better at OT than guard.  No debate there.  Now, why can't the same be true for Volson?  He has already proven to be solid at LG, but if he can be even better at RT (his natural position), the Bengals might have found a real diamond in the rough.  At the very least, I would see him as a serious upgrade to Collins in pass protection.  

(02-24-2023, 11:04 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: You think we’re skeered? GASP! Come’er you…

(02-25-2023, 12:49 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I would be curious to see where you feel Jackson Carman fits in? I personally feel he is meant to play on the edge in space and from the small sample we got in the playoffs I believe he could be a legit long term RT. Given the situation he was thrown into I felt he showed very well at LT. I know he played LT at the collegiate level but I saw him as an NFL RT since his senior season. 

The guy I have high hopes for was D'Ante Smith. I really felt he had a core skillset that could be developed into a high quality OT at the NFL level.

(02-25-2023, 07:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah I don't find it that far fetched that Volson could be an upgrade over Adeniji at RT lol

(02-25-2023, 09:28 PM)Whatever Wrote: Pass blocking 37% of the time is not much when most NFL teams are throwing 60%+ , though.

Another big issue is how many of those snaps were actual true pass sets?  NDSU's passing game is very heavy play action out of I-form with the TE in tight to at least help chip the DE.  It isn't an offense that's going to be giving up many sacks in general.  They allowed 13 sacks in '22 and 17 in '21.  

Adeniji's issue coming out of college was anchor/play strength.  Moving him inside to block bigger, stronger DT's is playing towards that weakness.  KC actually exploited it by putting Jones out on the edge against him on a number of snaps.  Volson's main issue is handling speed and athleticism.   

(02-26-2023, 11:19 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I mean, all this crying about "screwing him up", by changing his position is just stupid.  He is a professional with a TON of snaps at RT.  Why did the Bengals put him at LG in the first place?  NEED!  It was the weak spot on an otherwise pretty solid line (we all had higher hopes for Collins).

Well, now the Bengals need a RT.  And the draft is littered with some solid Guards.  It just makes sense to me to at least look at it.  

(02-26-2023, 11:24 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: That is based on some scouts projections.  He never had a problem with it in college at RT.  He consistently graded in the mid 80s to mid 90s in both run blocking and pass blocking.  We have never seen him attempt RT in the NFL.  RT generally deals more with the big rushers, and not speed anyways.  Watt is the exception to that and he destroyed everyone we put on him last year.  

The Bengals put Volson at LG because they had a need there with Carman struggling.  Entirely new position for him, and he was solid after a shaky start.  Now the Bengals have a huge need at RT and I want either a veteran or someone like Volson over a rookie at the end of round 1.  Can't afford another Oguehi.  

(02-26-2023, 01:03 PM)OSUfan Wrote: The draft is actually better at projected RTs than it is LTs. You can call others opinions crying or you could use perspective to look at the debate points. If there is a single area that needs consistency and cohesiveness it is the offensive line. As we have seen from players we have drafted it is not every OT at the collegiate level that can step in and play OG as well because they are very different animals it has nothing at all to do with being a pro. Carman struggled mightily at OG but looked right back at home instantly at OT. Adeniji was awful at OG but looked far better moving back outside.

Maybe it is not as much crying by others as it is about trying to fix what is not broke. Maybe the statements by others are not stupid rather looking at things with a bit less bias. 

(02-26-2023, 01:20 PM)OSUfan Wrote: So rather than moving Volson from the LG position and using your theory of them being "pros" why not leave Carman at LT where he looked mighty good in the playoffs and moving Jonah to RT since Collins may not be ready to start the season and he will not have to handle as many speed rushers as he would on the left side? I would be more onboard moving outside to outside rather than moving a player established on the inside to outside and hope it works out well and then have to find another player to move inside.

Who do you plan to move inside or do you plan to start this season again with another rookie inside?

(02-26-2023, 11:19 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I mean, all this crying about "screwing him up", by changing his position is just stupid.  He is a professional with a TON of snaps at RT.  Why did the Bengals put him at LG in the first place?  NEED!  It was the weak spot on an otherwise pretty solid line (we all had higher hopes for Collins).

Well, now the Bengals need a RT.  And the draft is littered with some solid Guards.  It just makes sense to me to at least look at it.  

(02-26-2023, 11:24 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: That is based on some scouts projections.  He never had a problem with it in college at RT.  He consistently graded in the mid 80s to mid 90s in both run blocking and pass blocking.  We have never seen him attempt RT in the NFL.  RT generally deals more with the big rushers, and not speed anyways.  Watt is the exception to that and he destroyed everyone we put on him last year.  

The Bengals put Volson at LG because they had a need there with Carman struggling.  Entirely new position for him, and he was solid after a shaky start.  Now the Bengals have a huge need at RT and I want either a veteran or someone like Volson over a rookie at the end of round 1.  Can't afford another Oguehi.