(12-21-2023, 09:16 AM)Sled21 Wrote: He knows he's not going to the HOF, so he just wants on the ROH. That's all this is.

(12-20-2023, 10:36 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I think there's a case to be made for Chase being better but this is definitely some recency bias. Chad was an ironman and only missed five games due to injury in his 10 seasons in Cincinnati. He played in 96% of games available to him. Chase still has a long way to go in his career, but he has had a shaky start with injuries so far. He has only played in 84% thus far and is set to miss more this season. Chad also did it in a notoriously more physical era. I think it is hard to argue that Chase "blows the doors off Chad" when it comes to toughness. 

I would also claim Chad on route running, but this is a bit of a complex topic that we don't have all the information on because what they do can be dependent on how the defense plays them I.E. man vs. cover 2/quarters/quarters-half etc. Chase is more physical than Chad was, but Chad was exceptionally quick and savvy in getting open. This, I think was Chad's best trait along with his body control, which I would also give to Chad. Throwing an out route to Chad enabled you to throw it at one of the coaches on the bench and it was still a good ball for him with how he could lay out for a catch. Trying to go much deeper, I have no idea. When these guys are running option routes, who is consistently running the correct one for the defense they are seeing? Shit if I know. 

I think Chase cleanly wins when it comes to after the catch ability, contested catches, and his ability to make plays deep. This kind of goes hand-in-hand with his contested catches ability. Chase is so savvy with how he can get away with a push off to create separation right as the ball is arriving. I think he is also a more dynamic athlete than Chad was so once he gets the ball in his hands he is more dangerous in space. Both of them have/had good hands. The easiest thing to do would be to compare dropped passes but there aren't any publicly available resources to use for Chad's career. Chase has a 4.1% drop percentage this year, and a little over 6% for his career (21 drops in three seasons). He is in the upper 1/4 of the league this year, and his career percentage is roughly NFL average.

Chad was a dude, just like Chase is. He has multiple first team AP selections for a reason in a time where he was competing against some all-time greats. Chase very well could be better, but he isn't blowing the doors off him IMO. 

(12-20-2023, 05:19 PM)Sled21 Wrote: *&#$ Corey Dillon coming around now acting like he's still part of the family. The man left throwing his equipment into the stands and badmouthed the Bengals for decades. Now that they're winning, he wants to be part of it again. Child please, go away.

(12-20-2023, 06:01 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Chase isn't in front of Chad...yet. 

(12-21-2023, 02:26 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I did a deep dive a few years ago and not only was Neal overrated, but the HBs he blocked for either did as well or BETTER without him blocking for them.

He also was not a great runner (though he had the one, great, fluke season with... NO, IIRC) and while he had soft hands, he wasn't the best pass catcher either.

Everyone seems to have forgotten about Alstott when talking about FBs, but they remember Neal.


Lol lm having trouble copying/pasting my tweet, so I'll post it tomorrow

(12-21-2023, 09:14 AM)Sled21 Wrote: That's perfectly fine, I'm not looking for support. These are MY feelings towards him.

(12-20-2023, 05:40 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: 1. Neal not only is one of the most overrated players in the modern era, we had (not in the order below):

- Jeremi
- Derrick Fenner
- Pete Johnson
- ICKEY ******* WOODS

All on this team, all infinitely better than Neal could ever have dreamt to be.

2. Who's R. Cook?

3. Pelfrey isn't even top 5 of best Ks in team history

Graham
Evan (the best, of course)
Fat Randy (as much as we hate him, he was better)
Breech (ugh)
Nuge'

(12-21-2023, 10:22 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: You asked, here it is!

QB: Burrow (let's be realistic: he doesn't have the numbers that KA does, but he's our QB1)
RB: CD
FB: Ickey
WR: Chase (same as Burrow), Chad, AJ
TE: Bob Trumpy, Tony McGee
OT: Munoz, Willie
OG: Boling, Montoya
C: Kozerski/Brilz (take your pick)

DE: Hendrickson, Dunlap (Edwards just not as good)
DT: Geno, Krumrie, Mike Reid
LB: Reggie Williams, Jim LeClair
CB: Riley, Parrish, Hall
FS: Tommy Casanova, Nelson
SS: Fulcher, Vonn Bell
K: Evan
P: McInally
LS: CLark Harris

(12-21-2023, 11:26 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: No Rodney Holman at TE? I suppose I never put too much thought into the kicking game. Are you going with Evan since the kickers today are athletic beasts who can make 55+ yard kicks?

(12-20-2023, 10:36 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I think there's a case to be made for Chase being better but this is definitely some recency bias. Chad was an ironman and only missed five games due to injury in his 10 seasons in Cincinnati. He played in 96% of games available to him. Chase still has a long way to go in his career, but he has had a shaky start with injuries so far. He has only played in 84% thus far and is set to miss more this season. Chad also did it in a notoriously more physical era. I think it is hard to argue that Chase "blows the doors off Chad" when it comes to toughness. 

I would also claim Chad on route running, but this is a bit of a complex topic that we don't have all the information on because what they do can be dependent on how the defense plays them I.E. man vs. cover 2/quarters/quarters-half etc. Chase is more physical than Chad was, but Chad was exceptionally quick and savvy in getting open. This, I think was Chad's best trait along with his body control, which I would also give to Chad. Throwing an out route to Chad enabled you to throw it at one of the coaches on the bench and it was still a good ball for him with how he could lay out for a catch. Trying to go much deeper, I have no idea. When these guys are running option routes, who is consistently running the correct one for the defense they are seeing? Shit if I know. 

I think Chase cleanly wins when it comes to after the catch ability, contested catches, and his ability to make plays deep. This kind of goes hand-in-hand with his contested catches ability. Chase is so savvy with how he can get away with a push off to create separation right as the ball is arriving. I think he is also a more dynamic athlete than Chad was so once he gets the ball in his hands he is more dangerous in space. Both of them have/had good hands. The easiest thing to do would be to compare dropped passes but there aren't any publicly available resources to use for Chad's career. Chase has a 4.1% drop percentage this year, and a little over 6% for his career (21 drops in three seasons). He is in the upper 1/4 of the league this year, and his career percentage is roughly NFL average.

Chad was a dude, just like Chase is. He has multiple first team AP selections for a reason in a time where he was competing against some all-time greats. Chase very well could be better, but he isn't blowing the doors off him IMO. 

(12-21-2023, 01:30 PM)Whatever Wrote: Statistically speaking, it's Chase and it's not even really close.

Currently, Chase averages 85.0 yards/game and 9.3 yards/target.  Chad averaged 66.6 yards/game and 8.1 yards/target.  Chad has a 55.8% career catch% vs 66.2% for Chase. Chad played in a tougher era, but the numbers aren't even close.

Comparing their respective record seasons, it took Chase 128 targets to get to 1455 yards his rookie season.  It took Chad 161 targets to reach 1440.  

Chad is probably one of the Top 5 technicians to ever play the position.  However, he just isn't anywhere close to having had the physical gifts Chase does.  It's fair to argue longevity when we're talking Bengals greats, so I don't have an issue with folks putting Chad over Ja'Marr based on tenure, However, if the Bengals were playing in the Superbowl and you had the option to have either prime Chad Johnson or prime Ja'Marr Chase, it Chase, all day, all night.

(12-21-2023, 09:22 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m sure he cries himself to sleep every night worrying about  being in the Bengals RoH while he’s looking at his Super Bowl ring.

(12-20-2023, 05:16 PM)J24 Wrote: QB- Burrow, Anderson, Boomer
RB- Dillon, Brooks, R.Rohnson, Mixon
FB- Neal
TE-  Holman, Eifert, Tumpy, Gresham
Wr- Chase, C.Johnson, Green, Curtis, Pickens, Housh
OT-Munoz, Anderson,  Whitworth
G- Max M, B.Wiiams, Lap, Zeitler
C- Barham, R.Cook

3T- Geno, Wilkerson,
NT- Krumi, Reader, Peko
E- Bacon, Hendrickson, Dunlap, J.Smith
MLB- L.Wilson, B Simmons, Bill Bergy
WLB- Vontaz, Spikes,
CB- Riley, Parrish,  Joseph, E Thomas,
NB- Hall, Hilton
FS- Bates, Casanova
SS- Fulcher, Nelson

LS- Clark Harris
P- Huber
K-;Pelfry

(12-20-2023, 10:48 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, Chad was tough as nails. Those Pittsburgh and Baltimore defenses were loaded with HoFers that he was going up against 4x a year.

(12-21-2023, 03:48 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I don't think of Chad as tough. Not saying he isn't, but besides bouncing off Ray Lewis, I just remember him going down willingly quite often. The WR give up, so to speak.

Chad Johnson is an all time great Bengal and would be considered a spectacular player in any era. I just have him behind Chase & Green as far as over all skillsets go. I also think Chase is more dangerous than either from a big play standpoint, yac, etc.

(12-21-2023, 03:48 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I don't think of Chad as tough. Not saying he isn't, but besides bouncing off Ray Lewis, I just remember him going down willingly quite often. The WR give up, so to speak.

Chad Johnson is an all time great Bengal and would be considered a spectacular player in any era. I just have him behind Chase & Green as far as over all skillsets go. I also think Chase is more dangerous than either from a big play standpoint, yac, etc.

(12-20-2023, 05:16 PM)J24 Wrote: QB- Burrow, Anderson, Boomer
RB- Dillon, Brooks, R.Rohnson, Mixon
FB- Neal
TE-  Holman, Eifert, Tumpy, Gresham
Wr- Chase, C.Johnson, Green, Curtis, Pickens, Housh
OT-Munoz, Anderson,  Whitworth
G- Max M, B.Wiiams, Lap, Zeitler
C- Barham, R.Cook

3T- Geno, Wilkerson,
NT- Krumi, Reader, Peko
E- Bacon, Hendrickson, Dunlap, J.Smith
MLB- L.Wilson, B Simmons, Bill Bergy
WLB- Vontaz, Spikes,
CB- Riley, Parrish,  Joseph, E Thomas,
NB- Hall, Hilton
FS- Bates, Casanova
SS- Fulcher, Nelson

LS- Clark Harris
P- Huber
K-;Pelfry

(12-20-2023, 05:19 PM)Sled21 Wrote: *&#$ Corey Dillon coming around now acting like he's still part of the family. The man left throwing his equipment into the stands and badmouthed the Bengals for decades. Now that they're winning, he wants to be part of it again. Child please, go away.