(12-26-2016, 12:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Give him the benefit of the doubt (I'm sure you blindly will) and say he would have finished 2015 Top 10, it would have been the only time in his 6 year career. 

(12-26-2016, 02:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Andy is top 10 among active players in passer rating. Considering that he never finished higher than 13th in any year you didn't conveniently exclude, that can only mean one thing, right? That other QBs have had less consistency or worse "down years"? I can't think of any other way to explain why Dalton's career passer rating ranks better than his individual years. 

With that said, I'll take the QB who has consistently been good over the scrubs who periodically rise above him. Say Kaepernick, Hoyer, McCown,   Foles, and other one year wonders that can't hang with Dalton on a year to year basis. In short, the QB who ranks 9th among active players and 14th all time in passer rating is not "mid tier".

As for your exclusion of 2016 due to some mythical tumble, Dalton is on a 2 game streak of sub par games. A 60 rating and an 84 rating (which isn't all that bad...nevermind what he's dealing with). Those followed ratings of 130 and 112. So really I'm not sure why you're acting like he's in a late season plunge. 

Just for the sake of discussion though, if you take these last 2 games and add them twice each to make up for the 4 games Dalton missed in 2015, his passer rating would've dropped all the way to 98.0, which would've ranked 8th in the league in 2015. And that's pretty close to a worst case scenario.

(12-26-2016, 03:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There is no need to give him the benefit of any doubt.  He finished #2 in the league in passer rating.

The only "blind" people around here are the ones who did not see that dalton was actually BETTER over the final 5 weeks of '13 and '14, so there is no reason to think he would not have been better over the final 5 weeks of '15 also.

It is silly to claim that a QB who finished #2 in the league in passer rating has done "nothing to prove that he is anything more than a serviceable starter".  In half of his 6 seasons he has finished in the top 10 in td%, and he has finished in the top 10 in tds twice, passing yards twice, and lowest interception% twice.

Dalton may not be elite, but he is definitely more than just a "serviceable starter"

(12-26-2016, 04:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course you'll take Andy over lots of other QBs; really don't think that comes as a surprise to anyone. Talk to Brownshoe, I think he agrees with you. Most everyone else that watches football including experts paid to evaluate it do not. Dude has been a mid-tier QB his whole career, but he has done so consistently; I suppose that's a good thing. 

(12-26-2016, 01:33 AM)James Brooks Wrote: Andy will make $100 million dollars during his career with the Bengals. Inasmuch as he is a middle tier QB, I feel elated for his good fortune. Wish it was me.

(12-26-2016, 04:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Maybe we do agree.  "Mid tier" is a pretty vague term.  List all of the QBs you consider "top tier" that are clearly better than Dalton.

(12-26-2016, 05:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Ones most would agree on:

Ben
Drew
Tom
Aaron
Russell
Cam
Romo
Ryan
Luck
Stafford


Younger QBs making a case:
Winston
Matrrota
Carr
Prescott
Tannehill

Vets that could compare:
Eli
Rivers
CP9

So giving and taking benefit of the doubt; I'd put Andy 13-17 (middle of the pack)

Now list starting QBs that you think are clearly worse than Andy.

(12-26-2016, 05:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Ones most would agree on:

Ben - yes
Drew - yes
Tom - yes
Aaron - yes
Russell - probably, but close (Wilson has had a much better sitch)
Cam - About the same. Dalton is a better passer. Btw, have you watched him this year?
Romo - a few years ago yeah, not sure anymore 
Ryan - Similar level
Luck - Similar level, although Dalton has been more efficient through their careers 
Stafford - He's pretty much the NFC version of Dalton


Younger QBs making a case:
Winston - Not quite yet
Matrrota - No, but it's still early in his career
Carr - Maybe, but I think the kid is a tad overhyped
Prescott - Way too early to call + look at the team around him
Tannehill - Lol

Vets that could compare:
Eli - Agreed
Rivers - Agreed since Rivers has fallen a notch
CP9 - Not anymore, Palmer is falling off

So giving and taking benefit of the doubt; I'd put Andy 13-17 (middle of the pack)

Now list starting QBs that you think are clearly worse than Andy.

(12-26-2016, 05:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I put Dalton in the 8-12 tange.  Not elite, but much better than just a "serviceable starter".

(12-25-2016, 11:18 AM)jason Wrote: Looked pretty good didn't he? Rich Gannon kept saying " They gotta get Ogbuehi some help".

(12-25-2016, 06:10 PM)Whatever Wrote: Sadly, he looked better at LT than he has all year at RT.  He only got blown off the LoS every other play.

(12-26-2016, 04:47 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I feel awful for Andy, he's always been a winner, in whatever sport, at whatever level of competition that he has tried. For his talents to be wasted away by an organization not making winning a Championship a priority, is in itself a tragedy.  Having to deal with a hard-headed, mediocre HC, as well as a revolving door of OCs and position coaches is tough to deal with.

The only solace we can take is the fact that Andy has done very well for his family financially, and that he and his wife Jordan are model citizens of impeccable character and the embodiment of giving hearts.

(12-26-2016, 07:47 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: This is the real problem.

And I do feel bad for Andy as well as Whit, Carlos, Geno, A.J. hell the whole team !

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Brady would struggle to win here with all the same circumstances. 

(12-25-2016, 06:12 PM)Jpoore Wrote: While he did give up 2 sacks, am I the only one who thought he did okay against a VERY good pass rusher in clowney? What I men is that imo he looked better al LT than he ever did at right which isn't saying much but still.

(12-26-2016, 04:47 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I feel awful for Andy, he's always been a winner, in whatever sport, at whatever level of competition that he has tried.  For his talents to be wasted away by an organization not making winning a Championship a priority, is in itself a tragedy.  Having to deal with a hard-headed, mediocre HC, as well as a revolving door of OCs and position coaches is tough to deal with. 

The only solace we can take is the fact that Andy has done very well for his family financially, and that he and his wife Jordan are model citizens of impeccable character and the embodiment of giving hearts.

(12-26-2016, 05:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Ones most would agree on:

Ben
Drew
Tom
Aaron
Russell
Cam
Romo
Ryan
Luck
Stafford


Younger QBs making a case:
Winston
Matrrota
Carr
Prescott
Tannehill

Vets that could compare:
Eli
Rivers
CP9

So giving and taking benefit of the doubt; I'd put Andy 13-17 (middle of the pack)

Now list starting QBs that you think are clearly worse than Andy.

(12-26-2016, 07:52 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yep, it cracks me up when people try to say that Andy is just an "average" QB.  If he were on a well run team, he might have had a Championship or two, by now.

(12-26-2016, 07:05 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Pathetic really. I don't care what anyone says, we need to draft a LT in the upcoming draft. Ogbuehi can sit on the bench or get cut, I really don't care which. I don't even see him as a viable backup for either tackle spot. He's just that bad.

I'm sure Paul Alexander is making his excuses and trying to convince one and all in the Bengals' organization that Ogbuehi just needs another off season. But he's been so bad that even if he improved a lot he'd still be a bad left or right tackle.

(12-26-2016, 08:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Lots of average QBs might win a championship or 2 on a well run team. As a matter of fact a couple have.

I think it's a matter of semantics that have folks upset. Call it what you want but I currently rank Andy: "middle of the pack", "mid-tier", "serviceable, "average", "solid", good" or whatever term folks want to use you a QB consistently ranking between 13-18 in the league.