(02-11-2017, 10:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: . 
 that has had a legitimate shot every season for five straight years

(02-11-2017, 10:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:  He has "stuck with Marvin" because he doesn't make quick decisions out of passion...

(02-11-2017, 10:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is one of those arguments where it is like a Republican trying to tell a Democrat something is different than they see it.  It is probably futile.  And before I start, I am not a relative and not on the payroll. 

Mike Brown wants to win as much as we do, if not more.  He has "stuck with Marvin" because he doesn't make quick decisions out of passion....like the Falcons firing two defensive coaches moments after the Super Bowl.  This is a very intelligent and calculating man.  I believe he didn't fire Marvin because it was one really off year.  A blip on an otherwise positive trajectory.  I don't know if Marvin can ever truly change his stripes and play with the kind of aggression necessary to win a championship, but Mike Brown rightly believes that one year shouldn't take away Marvin's opportunity to finish what he started.   As much as I hate conservative, bad clock management, no in-game adjustment Marv, I and still pulling for the guy to complete the mission.

The city does NOT pay for all the stadium and upgrades.  The city agreed to a slight tax increase to help funding of a new stadium and for improvements over the course of its existence.  Every singly owner in the NFL would do the exact same thing, and Mr. Brown did pay for improvements, enhancements, more scouts, and better coaches (how quickly we forget that the Bengals had one of the highest overall payrolls for coaches when they had Marv, Zim, and Gruden all together.  And he assembled that coaching staff.  He  may be judicious in how he spends his money, but he definitely spends on players that have earned it...there was never a question that our core players would be re-signed and offered fair market value.  The fact that Nelson, Sanu, and Jones left doesn't change that.  The Bengals wisely didn't overpay to keep them, but it should be noted their offers were very close. 

As far as the day to day operations, he does very little any more...this team is primarily run by Marvin, Katie, and Troy.  And with the exception of this past season, they have put a winning team on the field that has had a legitimate shot every season for five straight years and overcome a troublesome decade and the stigma that went with it.

(02-11-2017, 11:12 PM)Derrick Wrote: WOW! You certainly have a whole different opinion of Mike Brown than I.

(02-09-2017, 10:46 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: You're missing the ultimate problem, Pat....and it's not Marvin Lewis

(02-09-2017, 10:46 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: You're missing the ultimate problem, Pat....and it's not Marvin Lewis

(02-10-2017, 07:19 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Out of curiosity, who do you believe is the ultimate problem? 

Marv was the one that stuck with Ced O. when he was sucking royal ass...
Marv played ancient, plodding LBs over younger, faster options...
Marv sat Hunt, after he finally made some plays....
Marv ran MJ out there week after week when he was getting less pressure than PAs coaches shorts have in the seat...
Marv kept feeding Hill, when he only had success against Cleveland....

Those are all calls coming from the HC....I don't know who else could have been more at fault for this team's collapse.

(02-10-2017, 11:26 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: I had an oppurtunity to speak to a former bengals Safety from the 80s that was part of both super bowl runs.  It's no coincidence as to why/when the bengals franchise took a downward turn. 

In his opinion Marvin Lewis is a Super Bowl caliber coach stuck on a bottom of the barrel franchise.  Hence the mixed results.  

It was kind of nice, and frustrating at the same time, to finally confirm what I had always assumed.  

(02-11-2017, 11:38 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I'm with you on this as are many of the fans.

I'm sure that on some level Mikey wants to win, but how many wins does he really want and how much does he really want them?

Is one and done 5 straight years good enough? Apparently so.

How about 6-9-1? That seems to be okay with him as no changes are coming during this off season that I can see. I hear talk, but I hear that every year. Talk doesn't mean crap.

(02-10-2017, 07:19 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Out of curiosity, who do you believe is the ultimate problem? 

Marv was the one that stuck with Ced O. when he was sucking royal ass...
Marv played ancient, plodding LBs over younger, faster options...
Marv sat Hunt, after he finally made some plays....
Marv ran MJ out there week after week when he was getting less pressure than PAs coaches shorts have in the seat...
Marv kept feeding Hill, when he only had success against Cleveland....

Those are all calls coming from the HC....I don't know who else could have been more at fault for this team's collapse.

(02-11-2017, 04:47 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It's obvious we should put faith in Mike and Marv. Just look at their results. Do we really want to end up like those scrub Falcons?

(02-11-2017, 05:18 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Slight? It's going to cost county tax payers upwards of a billion dollars. It's the equivalent of the street car, city-wide raises, and about 3-5 school levies. There's nothing slight about it. I would love to hear your definition of "considerate" or "sizeable" in regards to local projects. 

(02-12-2017, 02:03 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: To be fair, we don't know what the knee-jerk reaction of kicking those two coaches to the curb will be.  They now have the burden of replacing their OC (who was a BIG part of their success), and a couple defensive coaches.  Much like the Bengals have learned in replacing Zim, Gruden, and Hue...it isn't going to be easy.

I am unsure of who is paying for the Falcons new stadium, but it is going to be a huge bill for someone.  

(02-11-2017, 05:21 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Except he enjoys what's been called "the greatest stadium deal in the history of sports". Does every owner benefit similarly?  No. And despite this, he still spends significantly less than his peers. Would every owner do that?

(02-11-2017, 05:00 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Do you have anything whatsoever to support this claim?  I kinda feel like you just made this up. If im wrong my apologies, but please share. A link would be a great start.

(02-12-2017, 01:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Do you really believe this team's problems started last year? I agree with your points on Marvin Lewis, but ultimately it's Mike Brown that...

1. Keeps Marv not only employed, but comfortable in his seat.
2. Has favorites that can't be fired, like Paul Alexander - who is more responsible for 6-9-1 than any other coach.
3. Refuses to build a practice facility that the coaches, players and fans want.
4. Refuses to offer much guaranteed money on contracts, which limits the type of players we can sign.
5. Refuses to hold himself or anyone else accountable, which permeates through the entire organization.
6. Makes excuses for mediocre performance rather than demanding excellence.

Marv is a confirmed choker. The guy has proven time and again that he can't get it done. That said, the biggest reason we won't compete for titles now or any time in the foreseeable future is one step up the chain on command.

(02-12-2017, 02:50 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: 1.) So, you think Marv should have been fired in the midst of the 5 consecutive playoff appearances streak. 

(02-12-2017, 03:15 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: This is where I think most people was kind of on-board with marv before this year. I can, to some degree, understand why they would keep him even with the 0 in the win column to his name in the PO after so many tries. But he didn't last year and that should of been the nail in the coffin. He failed to do what he's proven and expected to do now you pay the consequences. It's stinks of lacking accountability and having a set of expectations that breads a winning culture. It's honestly what you see from them in those big stage's. 

(02-11-2017, 10:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Mike Brown wants to win as much as we do, if not more.  He has "stuck with Marvin" because he doesn't make quick decisions out of passion....like the Falcons firing two defensive coaches moments after the Super Bowl.  This is a very intelligent and calculating man.  I believe he didn't fire Marvin because it was one really off year.  A blip on an otherwise positive trajectory.  I don't know if Marvin can ever truly change his stripes and play with the kind of aggression necessary to win a championship, but Mike Brown rightly believes that one year shouldn't take away Marvin's opportunity to finish what he started.   As much as I hate conservative, bad clock management, no in-game adjustment Marv, I and still pulling for the guy to complete the mission.

As far as the day to day operations, he does very little any more...this team is primarily run by Marvin, Katie, and Troy.  And with the exception of this past season, they have put a winning team on the field that has had a legitimate shot every season for five straight years and overcome a troublesome decade and the stigma that went with it.

(02-12-2017, 04:37 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I simply don't agree that Mike Brown wants to win as much, or more, than the fans do. 

This is an owner who watched Dave Shula go 8-24 (5-11, 3-13) in his first two seasons an decided that performance warranted a 2 year extension.

This is the same owner that tried to talk Bruce Coslet into remaining the HC even though they had lost 25 of their previous 30 games, and Coslet had flat out told him that it wasn't working.

This is a owner that still sounded defiant after firing Dick LeBeau - following a franchise worst 2 win season - insisting that things weren't as bad as fans and the media said they were.

There are plenty of other things I could list, but there's nothing about Mike Brown's actions during his tenure that screams "I want to win more than anyone". I'm sure he likes to win. I'm sure he prefers to win. But...I don't think he has ever had any great 'passion' to win. 

Instead, I think he's been incredibly stubborn in the past, wanting to do things 'his way'...even when the results were painfully obvious that his way wasn't working. Doing it 'his way' certainly seemed more important than the actual results.

This is one area where I've always given Marvin credit. He was able to come in, work closely with Katie and then Duke, in a way that there was a better way. That eventually led to Marvin gaining more control during negotiations after the 2010 season that led to him re-signing. But even during that process, Mike was very stubborn...to the point where Marvin actually walked away from the table at one point.

Mike's role since 2011 has been more limited, and that's a good thing, but again...nothing from 1991-2010 about Mike Brown - the owner or the GM - conveyed a message of "I want to win more than anyone". At least not in my opinion.