(05-01-2017, 01:47 AM)Benton Wrote: Not bad points. For discussion sake:
1. Our offense had a lot of problems. WR talent was maybe fourth out of four areas (line, predictable playcalling, redzone play, WRs). Our DL on the other hand was pretty much two guys doing the job of four. One of those guys not doing as much (Peko) is gone with a question makr in his place. The other (MJ) has some left in the tank, but he needs to be a part of a bigger rotation.

And honestly, I haven't seen much of a draft strategy the last several years. It was our strong point up until about the AJ/Andy draft. Since then, we gamble and haven't been hitting like we used to.

As far as the assumption on WR over DE to get more of an impact, eh, I'll disagree. There's a chance Ross won't play much this season. In the draft they were talking about him possibly starting PUP. He won't start over LaFell or Green. Boyd is (presumably) healthy, has a good skillset and a year on him. So, best case, he comes in for a few downs when we're up, or he replaces someone injured. He's a pick for down the road, as opposed to guys who could have started rotating in on the DL as soon as possible.

And since when does leading in redzone TDs "debunk" that he's more than a speed guy? Speed doesn't help score in the redzone? I didn't say he was only a deep threat, I said his only tool is his speed. He's not good at selling or adjusting to bad throws, hes a guy that gets to where he needs to be quickly. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's not a knock. But smart, experienced NFL corners are going to know where he's going, get there before him and get a hand in his face. 

2. Experienced coming off an injury is different than inexperienced. Experienced players know how to get the job done even if they have lost a step. Not really having any cake, just the difference in relying on a pro with an injury and gambling on a rookie with one.

3. Maybe. It'll be a couple years before we know. I hope you're correct, but I would temper that with the last time they tried that strategy at DE, we got... Margus Hunt.

That's my trepidation. 

I don't mind if we take later round picks to fill spots of need, but you can't take  project, wait four years and take another. 

4. We're banking a lot on "he only fell because of injuries." Sometimes it pans out, and sometimes we get Ogbuehi as a tackle.

5. I'd disagree. I think Green, LaFell, Boyd and Core is a pretty reliable four; beyond that, we had some options. I'm not opposed to this pick, I just don't see him making the team. Most likely practice squad, and most likely gone.

7. I'm ok with the pick. Like I said, he's an area of need. I just wish we'd taken a better one. 

8. Elflein is going to play guard or center in the next few years. Dielmann is going to fill out a roster until his rookie contract expires. Elfein was one of the few safe picks in the draft and fit the Bengals' philosophy of 'just plug him in somewhere.' And, no, I'm not an OSU fan. I'm a Golden Domer. But Elfein was still my favorite OL pick out of this draft as far as ceiling and versatility. 

(04-30-2017, 10:20 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I agree mostly Benton,

I mean I wanted an offense heavy draft but I didn't see Ross and Mixon coming !

Marvin and Co. are hanging their hats on Ogbuehi and Fisher vastly improving and Smith (a player they didn't want a couple years ago) being able to stay healthy and switch positions. Not to mention Bodine and his questionable play.

I strongly believe this teams success hangs on the O-line and they've basically done nothing to address it since they let Whit and Zeitler walk.

I hope I'm wrong but I see this draft as having a large potential for being a major flop !

(05-01-2017, 02:18 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah, you're right, I probably would have given Munoz a C, maybe lower, you're going off of hindsight there, where I would be basing my grade on potential risk.  I don't think I dinged the picks too badly.  I gave Ross a C....but that had more to do with an impact pass rusher.  If we go by injury issues only, it would be a B or B+ pick.  Maybe it's the Ogbuehi deal that has me antsy, but I'm just leery of a cat that is a WR in a brute force division that has already had three knee injuries....otherwise, great pick there.

Overall, I think the Bengals had a nice draft....we can come back later and see who panned out, and who didn't.  I'd say my opinion of it is much higher than the OP, but I can understand some of the concerns as well, and agree with some of them.

As for character concerns, I've said all I'm going to say about that.....and probably should have just left that blank....but I wanted to clarify my thoughts on second chances.

(05-01-2017, 02:09 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I looked at it differently. We will have injuries and if we want guys who can do what the guy injured can do (maybe not all of it, but at least some of it, we have to make sure they have similar attributes.

Ross = Malone (both are speed guys so if Ross injured, we will still have an option of speed opposite AJ Green

AJG = Core No WR is AJ, but again Core has some of his traits

Boyd = Lafell

I also see Malone over time playing every WR position, so the ability to have guys who can line up in multiple places makes it much harder on the DC to make adjustments

(05-01-2017, 02:28 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: For the first time in a long time, I think this team had a blueprint for each player that they drafted - speed.  This team has been fairly slow the past few years.

That being said you can make an argument that this draft will upgrade the team as more than any draft since the Dalton/Green draft.

1.  John Ross.  As soon as I saw Davis go at #5, I looked at my wife and said "the Bengals are taking John Ross."  She laughed and said, how do you know that?  Well, it's simple.  We need a guy that can be a playmaker with and without AJ Green.  A lot of people say Core performed pretty good last year, but we could do diddly poo offensively when AJ and Effect were out.  Ross will really open up the field for Eifert, Green and Boyd.

2.  Joe Mixon.  Best running back fit for this team in the draft.  Feature back size with scat back quickness and receiving ability.  A great pick and an immediate game changer on offense.  He very easily could be offensive rookie of the year if everyone stays healthy.

Jordan Willis and Carl Lawson will help on 3rd downs immediately .  They are both very fast and very productive.  If you wanted Barnett, take a look at Lawson's tape.  He's an outstanding pass rusher.

(05-01-2017, 02:25 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think we actually looked at it the same. I stated that I thought it was a good depth move, just that I thought OL should have been more priority given a WR was already selected. As you mention, he has speed and good size, so he should be able to play multiple spots.
The issue I see is the Bengals have to decide whether to keep 6 or 7 WRs now, as they won't risk Malone to the PS. Erickson is nothing special at WR but does offer great value as a returner. If someone else can prove to be about as good as Erickson as a returner, I think he can get chopped. Otherwise, the Bengals may have to get creative to keep 7 WRs. Given the trend of lower and lower usage out of Hewitt, perhaps he could get cut if the Bengals feel Erickson is worth keeping for returns.

(05-01-2017, 02:32 PM)Wyche Wrote: Is that you Jim Mora? 

[video=youtube][/video]

(05-01-2017, 01:18 PM)3wt Wrote:   We significantly strengthened the pass rush potential with Willis and Lawson, and I think Glasgow may be one of the more undervalued picks in the draft.  I looked at film on him.  He's a stud in the run game.  Stud.  Destroyed Elflein.  Rarely if ever goes backwards.  Our D-line coach raved about his technique.  And on film I thought he did a good job of shedding and penetrating.  That's huge from my perspective.  Stuffs the run, collapses the pocket and penetrates.  That's a pretty complete defensive tackle and will help us to compete in the AFC North.
 

(05-01-2017, 01:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The only picks I thought were head scratchers:
Josh Malone - I would have looked for OL here, but I can understand the pick. It was a selection for the future and really gives the Bengals great WR depth.

JJ Dielman - I wasn't a fan of this selection after seeing what he does and doesn't do well. But we know PA loves his versatile linemen when it comes to depth. Like many college OL nowadays, Dielman needs to really build up his strength before he sees the field.

Mason Schreck - This guy was really off the radar. Just like James Wright a couple years ago, I feel this one came out of left field and people will question it over some more talked-about TEs (Cole Hikutini specifically). I have to wonder if they weren't hoping Bucky Hodges would have fallen to this pick instead given how far he already dropped.

(05-01-2017, 02:22 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: I feel we had to go offense early as it wasn't a deep draft at many positions...   OL there wasn't to many spots to get good value on an ol guy for us.

DL is shored up...  WRs like Malone can still contribute on special teams even if not seeing the field much during the season... (and if ross is hurt Malone is also a speedster  consider him a insurance policy for Ross)

(05-01-2017, 02:37 PM)Benton Wrote: Agreed on Glasgow. I think in a season or two he could really help out. He doesn't stand out a lot in film (to me anyway) but I think that's because he's just the kind of guy that's doing his job. It's not like he's popping out with huge plays here and there, then disappearing.


With who we had as WR, backup OL and TE, personally I'd have rather one of those picks go towards another kicker to compete or (with the Malone pick) a lineman on either side to compete. I'll be surprised if more than one makes it on the team. Which isn't a knock — we've got a lot of good players on the bench and we had a lot of picks.

(05-01-2017, 02:22 AM)Benton Wrote: I think I've beaten Ross' points to death, so no reason to keep going over 1 & 2. I'll disagree to disagree.

3. I'm not mad about anything. I didn't just get dumped for a different prom date.  

That aside, I agree, it wasn't a good draft for OL. My main issue wasn't with the OL. I'm not really sure where I've implied we should have drafted an OLman. I'll go ahead and toss out there, I don't think we should have drafted an OL high. I would've been OK with one or two OL guys in the later second or later (namely Elflein), but I wouldn't really have wanted him early in the second, either.

My main gripe about the line is DL. Has been for about four years. So... yeah...

4. I keep getting told injuries are to be ignored, so Gio should be gtg. And Hill just needs a coach. We've had several in the last few years and it's showing. Fix the coaching. Improved OL would also be a big issue here.


So, I'll say heading in, both our lines werent good. Our OL, as I've saidbefore, will be better next year. Our DL won't. This draft had very little impact on either. 

As far as Pacman and Mixon, I wasn't directly comparing the two as far as offenses go; it was a comment on people complaining about how the team is veiwed as rule breakers and thugs and criminals, but then are cool with Mixon. Burfict with his twisting ankles and other on the field play gets lumped in there, even if he is clean off the field. I seriously am not following where you'd say we haven't had players — from mail order weed to DUIs to underage girls to Pacman being Pacman — that give us a reputation for a team with problem children.

And I'm not rallying against it. Some of our best players aren't nice guys. I don't mind the label as one of the dirtiest teams. But I'm not pretending Mixon is any more of a character guy than Pacman, and I don't get upset when people refer to drafting low character guys as a "typical Bengals move."

(05-01-2017, 02:43 PM)Benton Wrote: I think that was a big part of my issue with the first two picks. Lots of folks are saying "it was BPA" but it felt like reaches on both. 

I'm really not opposed to Ross or Mixon... I just didn't like where we took either. If we're going to go BPA, lets go BPA.

(05-01-2017, 02:43 PM)Benton Wrote: I think that was a big part of my issue with the first two picks. Lots of folks are saying "it was BPA" but it felt like reaches on both. 

I'm really not opposed to Ross or Mixon... I just didn't like where we took either. If we're going to go BPA, lets go BPA.

(05-01-2017, 02:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think the following draft picks make the team:
John Ross (occupies open WR spot that Wright had)
Joe Mixon (occupies open RB spot that Burkhead had)
Jordan Willis (occupies open DE spot that Hunt had)
Carl Lawson (I can see him being listed at either DE or take up a LB spot)
Ryan Glasgow (I think he beats out Sims as the backup to Billings)
Josh Malone (I think he either boots off Erickson, Core, or possibly the Bengals go 7 WRs and light somewhere else)
Jake Elliott (I think he beats out Bullock)
JJ Dielman (Takes up the last OL spot, but could see him going to PS)
Jordan Evans (I believe he knocks off Flowers and is used as a coverage LB)
Brandon Wilson (I actually believe he takes Peerman's roster spot since he is a ST ace as both a gunner and returner. Plus he offers more excitement as a RB and can play DB)

(05-01-2017, 03:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1 & 2. That's fine, but just keep in mind that you're disagreeing with the tape and pretty much every scouting report out there. Not sure why you're being so stubborn.

 

Quote:3. Ok, so I guess you're indifferent and that's why you made a multi-paragraph thread on the subject.  

Quote:4. From what I've heard, Gio won't be ready and Ross will be...if that's what you're talking about. Could be a coaching problem/scheme fit with Hill. Who knows? What I do know is that Hill has averaged 3.7 YPC over the last 2 years and that's unacceptable. I've always thought the line was a huge part of it, and I guess to an extent it probably is, but Burkhead looked great behind the same line. That softened my stance on that subject. I was ready for new talent at the position. I guess that's just where we disagree. 

__________________________

So it looks like you're just mad annoyed that the Bengals didn't take a DE in the first couple rounds. Lawson/Willis didn't do enough for you there? I mean they both were viewed as players that could've went sooner. Both great athletes that produced. I'd say at least one of them has a great chance to crack the rotation and make an impact. Who is in their way? Gilberry? 

Offensively (bigger problem than defense), the line was clearly a need that we should've taken more seriously...but other than line/coaching (neither of which could be fixed in this draft), speed, rushing and overall playmaking were without a doubt weaknesses. I'd say we fixed those issues, on paper. 

Then of course, they hammered away on the d-line after that. I feel they addressed all the issues they could, and did so in the correct order. Just trying to help you feel better, although it seems you're pretty set on your opinion for now. Hopefully these guys prove you wrong.

(05-01-2017, 04:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: A poll of 16 NFL scouts had 6 saying that Ross was the top WR among the "big 3" (there was a huge drop off in talent level after that). That was more than both Davis and Williams, who went before Ross. Many mocks had Ross going to the Bengals at 9, and some of the players that many thought were better prospects than Ross fell much further than anyone thought they would.

Derek Barnett went 14th
Malik Hooker went 15th
Jonathan Allen went 17th
OJ Howard went 19th
Taco Charlton went 28th
Reuben Foster went 31st

Were these players really better than Ross...considering what scouts said about him? Or were these players that slipped well past our pick worse than what we thought? 

(05-01-2017, 04:50 PM)bengalsboy Wrote: Don't agree at all.Think it was a great draft! Apparently others agree with me:

Sports Illustrated-A
SB Nation(Dan Kider)B-
NFL.com(Chad Reuter)A-
USAToday B
Fox Sports(Kurlenbach)B+

(05-01-2017, 05:04 PM)Benton Wrote: I think the weak crop of OL, QB & WR resulted in an early panic mode for some teams. In a normal year, even with a weaker-than-usual QB group, Trubisky doesn't go 2 and Maholmes 10. I was surprised Davis went 5, I didn't think he was that close to Williams. To me, there weren't a lot of safe offensive picks in the first round and Trubisky, Maholmes and Davis — along with Ross — wouldn't have happened in a normal year. Hooker, Allen and Barnett were pretty all pretty surprising in that they're probably safer picks and went after some offensive gambles.