(12-04-2018, 01:36 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I will take a conference championship appearance. I at least want to celebrate a playoff win before i'm dead. 27 years and counting dont care if we go 2- 30 next 2 seasons after that.

(12-04-2018, 07:09 PM)XsandOs Wrote: A few points to consider:

1) Lewis is the first HC hire for PB Jr., who has won here. It allowed him to buy back the last 30% share and take sole control. So that loyalty is hard to break.

2) Lewis is no longer a HC in the sense that we are discussing here. He is not a game planner/caller, like Reid, Payton, Pederson, Reich, McVay (who is actually a glorified OC). Lewis is a Team/Personnel Manager. And that has its place in NFL too.

3) Lewis succeeds when he has capable OC and DC (Gruden, Zimmer, Jackson).

So, if you fire Lewis, who do you bring in as HC, and more importantly, why?

If it is for more offense, then who and why? We already run a WC and were the first Team to run an innovative RPO regularly. Majority of Teams run a version of WC. So what is the difference? If you bring in Chip Kelley, what does he bring beyond his mesh concept?

If it is for more defense, who do you bring in and why? The rules changes and WC/RPO wrinkles requires defenses to adapt. Zones are no longer effective because RPOs overload on one side and overwhelm the zone. No one has shown to be able to counter them. Belichek and Phillips could not stop Reid, Phillips Man couldn't counter Payton's 21 (Kamara on a LB and TE running a stick).

If you use Marinelli as an example of who can stop Payton, remember that Dallas has familiarity with Payton's schemes from his days in Dallas. Marinelli is no genius.

We have two advanced offensive minds on our staff, and there is no viable defensive mind out there that guarantees success against the current schemes.

So again, if Lewis is fired, who do you suggest as replacement. And why?     

(12-05-2018, 04:13 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Good post and some good questions brother. 

I'll start with RPO. You sound like you think the rise of the RPO in the NFL is more than just a fad that will eventually pass or be scaled back in it's usage, and instead think it's here to stay and will continue to be a part of more and more offenses? I'm just not convinced of that. There are also some coaches, NFL and college, that don't think so either. I read a couple of really good articles about that awhile back. They talk a lot about things like extra exposure for QB's and incorporating it into an overall offensive philosophy. I'll post them when I find them again.

Anyway, when looking for a new head coach, specifically the Bengals...it has to be someone who is willing to wear different hats and be able to work closely with Mike, Katie and Duke. That's what they were used to with Marvin, and I'm sure they will be looking for the same in whoever the next head coach is, especially if they go outside. As it relates to players and approach...I think you need someone who is respected and the players can genuinely get excited about, someone who you feel understands and can adapt the an ever changing NFL, and someone that you feel comfortable building around and investing in...because the Bengals do not like moving on from head coaches.

Some of the guys I think they should look at (if Marvin were to leave or get fired) would be Fangio, Toub, LaFleur, Dan Campbell, Bettcher, Flores, DeFilippo, Matt Campbell (Iowa St) and Kris Richard. I like these guys for different reasons and think they're all interesting options. One guy on the staff that that's intriguing is Alex Van Pelt. 

(12-04-2018, 02:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No it would not.

Marvin has a winning record against other NFL coaches while being handicapped by the worst owner in the league.  To suggest that absolutely anyone would be better than him is ridiculous.

I see this same argument made about players all the time, and it makes no sense.  Just because one of our coaches o players is bad that does not mean he is the absolute worst on the planet.

(12-05-2018, 04:13 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Good post and some good questions brother. 

I'll start with RPO. You sound like you think the rise of the RPO in the NFL is more than just a fad that will eventually pass or be scaled back in it's usage, and instead think it's here to stay and will continue to be a part of more and more offenses? I'm just not convinced of that. There are also some coaches, NFL and college, that don't think so either. I read a couple of really good articles about that awhile back. They talk a lot about things like extra exposure for QB's and incorporating it into an overall offensive philosophy. I'll post them when I find them again.

Anyway, when looking for a new head coach, specifically the Bengals...it has to be someone who is willing to wear different hats and be able to work closely with Mike, Katie and Duke. That's what they were used to with Marvin, and I'm sure they will be looking for the same in whoever the next head coach is, especially if they go outside. As it relates to players and approach...I think you need someone who is respected and the players can genuinely get excited about, someone who you feel understands and can adapt the an ever changing NFL, and someone that you feel comfortable building around and investing in...because the Bengals do not like moving on from head coaches.

Some of the guys I think they should look at (if Marvin were to leave or get fired) would be Fangio, Toub, LaFleur, Dan Campbell, Bettcher, Flores, DeFilippo, Matt Campbell (Iowa St) and Kris Richard. I like these guys for different reasons and think they're all interesting options. One guy on the staff that that's intriguing is Alex Van Pelt. 

(12-05-2018, 04:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You know what i mean, i just want us to move on from Marv, that would be a start.

I don't mean absolutely anyone would be better.

(12-05-2018, 05:09 PM)XsandOs Wrote: I hear you, Nate.

It might be time to create Lewis a position within the organization that fits his personnel management strengths, and bring in some bright minds to counter these new schemes.

I would like to see Lazor and Jackson retained. When they have the personnel, they show their creativity.

(12-05-2018, 06:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I was for that years ago but now i think it is time to just wash our hands completely of Marv and company.

The only coaches i would keep on would be Van Pelt and Pollack and that is if the new coach wanted them.

(12-05-2018, 06:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I was for that years ago but now i think it is time to just wash our hands completely of Marv and company.

The only coaches i would keep on would be Van Pelt and Pollack and that is if the new coach wanted them.

Lazor was decent earlier in the season as OC but he hasn't been good this year as a whole.

Hue was a good OC a few years ago but he still has the Marv stench. I think it is time to wash our hands and
start over all the while building a new culture. Think this is the only way we dig ourselves out of this one.

(12-06-2018, 09:07 AM)TheBengalsMind Wrote: I'm a no on Rex Ryan.

I was never a real big fan of him.

I don't even know if we will let Marvin Lewis go. I definitely think its time we did.

I do know we need a defensive coach and if we wanted someone in the Rex Ryan mold, I wouldn't mind going after Mike Singletary as defensive coordinator.

He would definitely bring fire and accountability to this defense. They would be expected to do their job and be in their defensive positions. He would drill them in the fundamentals.

This is a defense that could use his seriousness and straightforwardness.

As far as Marvin Lewis goes, I think fans would take anybody that they feel has a legitimate chance to win and is different than Marvin Lewis.

Even if it's a retread like Herman Edwards (who is coaching again and did a fine job) or Jim Harbaugh or a younger coach like Eric Bieniemy.

I'm not saying it has to be either one of those, but it would be refreshing to see us going in a new direction.

(12-05-2018, 06:29 PM)OBX Bengal Wrote: I think Darrin Simmons is worth saving.

(12-05-2018, 07:55 PM)XsandOs Wrote: You, and our friend Bengalholic, seem to like Van Pelt.

Just as a matter of principle, I would like to see him here, if Marv is removed. He lost his job twice, when his HC was fired in Buffalo and Tampa.

I feel that Mixon's running style is better suited behind a zone blocking scheme that Pollack uses.   

(12-06-2018, 11:25 AM)SladeX Wrote: Given that Marv and Rex would have to work for the same Front Office, I would take Rex based on the entertainment value alone. If the team is doomed until Mike formally retires, then I could go for some new shtick - the blank stares, clapping and giggling are finally starting to wear on me.
If a coach can actually come in and succeed under the MB regime, then it would need to be someone young (as a HC), and innovative. Innovation might be an answer how a HC could get past being hamstrung by the organization.