(12-07-2018, 05:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes, I am a happy person, but I am not happy when I feel "pain, disgust, and bad".  

(12-07-2018, 06:13 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Of course one doesn't feel happiness in the exact moment of feeling unhappiness. However, life is not live in any single moment, but rather an accumulation of them. You can feel angry and disgusted while watching the Bengals on a Sunday afternoon, yet perfectly happy the rest of the week. Again sir, these are not contradictory propositions. 

As to your second paragraph, I find it very distasteful to refer to people as pathetic because they may experience things differently than you. In fact sir, I think I'll end our discussion here as it seems you have not taken my advice at all and are continuing with the same fallacious arguments in which the conclusions are flawed because of poorly formed premises. 

Welcome to a Fredtoast debate brother

(12-06-2018, 05:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What pain? I though regular season games were meaningless. Only playoff games matter, amiright?

(12-07-2018, 06:13 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Of course one doesn't feel happiness in the exact moment of feeling unhappiness. However, life is not live in any single moment, but rather an accumulation of them. You can feel angry and disgusted while watching the Bengals on a Sunday afternoon, yet perfectly happy the rest of the week. Again sir, these are not contradictory propositions. 

As to your second paragraph, I find it very distasteful to refer to people as pathetic because they may experience things differently than you. In fact sir, I think I'll end our discussion here as it seems you have not taken my advice at all and are continuing with the same fallacious arguments in which the conclusions are flawed because of poorly formed premises. 

(12-07-2018, 07:08 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: When the team hasn’t won a Playoff game since Vanilla Ice topped the charts then yes, only Playoff games matter.

(12-07-2018, 07:08 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: The sad thing is apologists get on here and try to equivocate marginal regular season success with actual, legitimate success as a Super Bowl threat and perennial Playoff winning team.

(12-07-2018, 07:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then why do you and so many others whine so hard after a regular season loss?

(12-07-2018, 07:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No one does that.

All I do is point out that the Bengals are not the worst team in the league.  Making the playoffs is not an "embarrassment".

I see the fans of the best teams in the league celebrate when they clinch a playoff spot.  If it has meaning to them then why can't it have meaning to us?  Why do you have to embellish your victim status and try to turn making the playoffs into total failure?

(12-07-2018, 07:58 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: I don’t embrace “victim” status.  Rather, I don’t accept mediocrity or the 60th percentile (aka 1st round Playoff exits) as you do.

(12-07-2018, 07:58 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote:  The reality is the Bengals are and have been among the most poorly run professional sports teams since Mike took over.  The terrible record speaks for itself.

(12-07-2018, 07:08 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: When the team hasn’t won a Playoff game since Vanilla Ice topped the charts then yes, only Playoff games matter. 

(12-07-2018, 07:48 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: You have to win enough regular season games to get to the part of the season that matters. 

(12-06-2018, 08:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It won't matter.  If we go 5-11 you all will be bawling your eyes out.

Teams that look good don't go 5-11.  People are already ripping Price as a bust and wanting to move on from him despite the fact that he is not only a rookie, but he has also been injured.  If we go 5-11 anyone who says anything positive will be criticized for "accepting losing".

(12-07-2018, 07:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am glad you are quitting because it is a waste of my time to try and have a debate with someone who just keeps making stuff up an moving the goalposts.

The OP claims that it is a bad to feel optimistic about the Bengals next year.  Godfather urges every one to cling to the pain, disgust, and bad feelings.  IN fact he says that if you feel optimistic you will be "in traction" if the Bengals fail next year.  That is total BS.

Then you come long and start talking about how it is possible to feel happy sometimes and bad other times but refusing to acknowledge that clinging to pain and bad feelings makes a person more sad than happy.

My premises are solid and my conclusions are sound.  You are not even discussing what the OP aid.  Instead you are spinning and making vague comments with no real basis in what we are talking about.  The fact that it is possible to feel bad sometimes and happy other times has nothing to do with the fact that people who work hard to preserve bad feelings are making themselves feel bad instead of good.

People who cling to and nurture feelings of "pain and disgust" are not as happy as people with positive optimistic outlooks unless they enjoy self pity and victimhood.  And being pessimistic does not ease the pain of failure because the pessimistic people here are admitting that they feel "bad", "disgusted" and "in pain" right now.  So there is no benefit to nurturing bad feelings.  All it does is make you feel bad.

(12-07-2018, 10:11 PM)Lucidus Wrote: I've honestly and with the best of intentions, tried to help you with tips and constructive criticism that I had hoped would help you recognize the flaws and failings of your argumentation style. Either you are not comprehending -- or you are refusing to acknowledge the issue -- or you're being purposefully obtuse and pretending. There are other options of course, but in the spirit of civil discourse, I won't expand. 

(12-07-2018, 08:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't accept it either.  But I don't have to act like the 60th percentile is complete failure.

I've noticed that most people who try to pump themselves up with the "I don't accept mediocrity" BS generally lead very mediocre lives.  For example they tend to be obsessed with losers like Vanilla Ice.

I am just as disappointed with playoff losses as you.  I just don't see the need to embellish my victim status.  It is still better to make the playoffs and lose than not make the playoffs.



The record does speak for itself.  Bengals were the worst team in the league '92-'02, but they have had some success since they hired Marvin.  Not nearly enough success, but far from the complete failure you cry about.

(12-07-2018, 06:41 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: So you should understand that these are temporary states of mind, yet you just don't seem to be able to grasp where your previous statements are extreme or hyperbolic.

(12-08-2018, 01:59 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Fred,  I think what Ludicus is trying to tell you is that while watching the Bengals maybe painful, it doesn't necessarily make someone so upset that they walk out into traffic.

Perhaps they might go bake some cookies after the game.  And eat one.  And be happy.

(12-06-2018, 08:00 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Let's hope they shit can Marvin and there's a least hope for the future.