(01-03-2024, 07:06 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: So... I think another question should be brought into the discussion.

Should A.I. be introduced into the making of calls ?
I'd be ok with it making offsides, false start, and other line calls.
I'm not sure it'd be economically viable to go full tilt with a camera on every onfield player, though.

(01-03-2024, 03:30 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: The NFL can just scapegoat the refs though making you and us think exactly what you said, in perpetuity.

They keep them part time too so they can scapegoat them even more. It's kinda crazy to me you have each owner making a billion dollars and they won't pay their refs full time salary w/benefits (?). There are a lot of refs, sure, but they're basically just like 1 more team lol. Don't the billionaires want to give their team the best chance to win? (I think some of us have accused Mike Brown of not doing so). Why wouldn't you want the best refs or reward the refs?

If you keep rules that are confusing you can control the game, right! lol.

I bet if Gene says the wrong thing he may be subject to a fine, is he allowed to say whatever he wants now that he's no longer in the NFL? That's what we hope lol.

Does the NFL still do the "ref report card" for only the last 2 minutes of the game or whatever? Why not ref report card for the whole game, guess the rest of the game doesn't matter lol. It does show they're trying to correct their problems at least, or is it just an illusion!

Lately I question after watching NFL for so long that it seems like every game we see something we've never seen before, how is that possible lol. Then again when playing Madden I see things I've never seen before but that's because it's buggy lol. That game ending almost ending 0-0 and then one of the teams scoring 63 the next game lol.

Those people who think the NFL is 100% real think we're crazy and they may be right lol, but if the NFL is influenced somehow by things we don't know or see, I bet they employ psychologists because it's easy to manipulate most people with simple actions or words, like a hypnotist lol. Maybe the NFL was not influenced as much as it is now, but now that there is a lot more money involved - things may have changed!

(01-02-2024, 05:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That was John Parry who worked that playoff game against us (opposing coach in a team's huddle on the field? penalty on the defense). Parry was also the booth "expert" who recently tried to cover for the refs in the Lions Cowboys game.

(01-03-2024, 09:26 AM)Daddy-O Wrote:
I'm not into the whole "rigged" discussion as it would take too many people to actually rig a game.  N

Now, when you have money involved people (refs) can always be influenced.  There is a LOT of money involved in the NFL.  It may only take 1 call at the right time to change the outcome of a game.  We saw that with the Logan Wilson pass interference in the Super Bowl and also this past weekend.  Timing is everything.

(01-03-2024, 09:26 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: I'm not into the whole "rigged" discussion as it would take too many people to actually rig a game.  N

Now, when you have money involved people (refs) can always be influenced.  There is a LOT of money involved in the NFL.  It may only take 1 call at the right time to change the outcome of a game.  We saw that with the Logan Wilson pass interference in the Super Bowl and also this past weekend.  Timing is everything.

(01-03-2024, 07:06 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: So... I think another question should be brought into the discussion.

Should A.I. be introduced into the making of calls ?
I'd be ok with it making offsides, false start, and other line calls.
I'm not sure it'd be economically viable to go full tilt with a camera on every onfield player, though.

(01-03-2024, 11:18 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Not only would it take too many people to rig the whole thing... It be impossible to keep it quiet.

But man oh man the way the refs call games makes you wonder sometimes. lol

A lot of "amazing" comeback stories etc over the last 2 years.. If it is scripted the writer is getting better.

(01-02-2024, 03:49 PM)Wyche Wrote: We got rooked a little, but Detroit took the whole shaft. That was absolutely ridiculous.

(01-03-2024, 07:06 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: So... I think another question should be brought into the discussion.

Should A.I. be introduced into the making of calls ?
I'd be ok with it making offsides, false start, and other line calls.
I'm not sure it'd be economically viable to go full tilt with a camera on every onfield player, though.

(01-03-2024, 09:26 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: I'm not into the whole "rigged" discussion as it would take too many people to actually rig a game.  N

Now, when you have money involved people (refs) can always be influenced.  There is a LOT of money involved in the NFL.  It may only take 1 call at the right time to change the outcome of a game.  We saw that with the Logan Wilson pass interference in the Super Bowl and also this past weekend.  Timing is everything.

(01-03-2024, 11:23 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Baseball makes total sense to use AI to call balls/strikes and they won't. I think the NFL would be fairly far behind baseball on that.

(01-07-2024, 02:31 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: It’s not rigged per se, but legally the NFL is one of only 2 pro sports I believe that is listed for entertainment purposes only.

They could legally come out and blatantly rig games and it’s perfectly legit and legal.

Are they doing that or are the refs just that incredibly incompetent?   Who knows.  Maybe a bit of both.   It only takes a call here or there at a critical time to try and swing the outcome.

Now you have a multi-billion dollar gambling industry involved.   What could go wrong?   lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(01-07-2024, 06:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That's not true.

There have been, unfortunately, lies spread around the internet.  How surprising?  Many social media pages, UberFacts (which has been uber wrong on many occasions) being one of them, has spread the idea that the NFL is a sports entertainment business.  And just like the WWE, the NFL can fix games.  Flat out false, and here is why.  The idea stems from an argumentative misinterpretation of the 2010 Supreme Court case Am. Needle, Inc. v. NFL.  Those who want to believe the NFL is rigged thought that the NFL was positioning itself a single entity giving it central control over the unifying interests of the many owners.  However, the NFL actually was positioning its spin-off creation NFLP, a corporation that holds all 32 teams’ intellectual property rights, as a single entity.  The unifying interests among the owners were to sell merchandise using NFL teams’ intellectual property.  Additionally, this argument was rejected by the Supreme Court.  Justice Stevens countered that just because the NFL formed a separate corporation called NFLP does not erase the fact that the organizations are separate profit-maximizing entities who do not have fully aligned interests.  The law currently does not view the NFL as a single entity.  Continuing, from this precedent, central control of the outcomes of NFL games would be a Sherman § 1 anti-trust violation.
https://ublawsportsforum.com/2023/02/21/the-nfl-isnt-rigged-but-this-is-how-they-would-do-it-and-why/

Supreme Court Decision:
The Supreme Court held that the National Football League's licensing of intellectual property in this case constitutes concerted action that is not categorically beyond Section 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act's coverage. With Justice John Paul Stevens writing for a unanimous Court, it noted that each NFL team is a substantial, independently owned, and independently managed business, whose objectives are not common. The Court reasoned that while the actions of NFL Properties ("NFLP") are not as easily classified as concerted activity, the NFLP's decisions about licensing are a concerted activity and, thus, are covered by Section 1.
https://www.oyez.org/cases/2009/08-661

NFLP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Properties#:~:text=National%20Football%20League%20Properties%2C%20also,National%20Football%20League%20(NFL).

Litigation:
https://www.classaction.org/news/nfl-teams-fanatics-conspired-to-dominate-online-market-for-league-licensed-merchandise-new-class-action-claims

(01-07-2024, 07:24 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Thank you for that info.  I stand corrected.

I will say though, as long as the refs keep going with these phantom calls that literally never even come close to actually happening I am going to believe something just isn't quite right.  I mean that intentional grounding that had the announcers going wtf, was not reversed even after a ref discussion.  Just too many fake calls to think something isn't up.  That doesn't mean it is the nfl fixing games.  Could be refs betting, completely and utterly incompetent, refs being threatened, etc.  I don't know.  I watched a lot of football this season and saw A LOT of fake calls and A LOT of announcers going wtf.

(01-06-2024, 04:10 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Your definition of rigged might be slightly different than mine, if some sole individual is causing a ref to sway a game due to financial reasons, periodically - is that being influenced, or rigged?  What if that sole person is a billionaire? lol. If you jump one level higher you have every NFL team owner being a billionaire. They share their money too, do they want to lose money or make money? :) Sure, there is evidence games are getting influenced. The Browns 2 wins back to back on multiple suspect calls at the end of those games were fishy enough! Like who would be the one doing the paying, anyway, a book keeper?

NFL definitely wants to make money like any business, that's why they schedule all these divisional games at the end of the year lol. They almost had their browns vs. bengals game mean something that they desperately wanted when they scheduled it there.

it's very possible these professional sports without money were all "real" but something might change when there is so much money involved.

The NBA only caught that one ref, it's a bad mark when they're caught for sure, they probably wished he wasn't caught and just retired! lol

If you let your mind wander on "too many people are involved", you can then think only the ones that are athletically capable of controlling a game are the ones in the know (curry who can make 150 3s in a row in practice, the QBs who can drop dimes with their eyes closed/etc). Or in other words, the ones that are paid 50x more than the average player lol. Everyone else is just trying their best lol.

I think refs (in NFL specifically) refereed in disregard with the score, who is home or away, who was supposed to win, etc - a lot of games going into the 4th quarter would already be over and the game would be turned off and people have left the stadium lol. I think the warriors were something like 30-8 at home and 8-30 away, at some point recently (within the last few years). They're professionals and home cooking matters that much? lol

Being rigged, influenced or cheating, some combination is probably occurring. Like belichick says if you're not trying ot cheat you're not trying to win. The Astros (I think) were caught recording pitch signals from the outfield right? It just doesn't stop lol. I wonder what % of games we watch are fair and square. I realize players cheating is entirely different than a game being influenced, but we should probably be as mad either way. When belichick made that statement it immediately made me think no wonder we lose because mike brown tries to play fair lol. Kobe used to say if the ref doesn't see it, it's not a foul.

(01-07-2024, 07:24 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Thank you for that info.  I stand corrected.

I will say though, as long as the refs keep going with these phantom calls that literally never even come close to actually happening I am going to believe something just isn't quite right.  I mean that intentional grounding that had the announcers going wtf, was not reversed even after a ref discussion.  Just too many fake calls to think something isn't up.  That doesn't mean it is the nfl fixing games.  Could be refs betting, completely and utterly incompetent, refs being threatened, etc.  I don't know.  I watched a lot of football this season and saw A LOT of fake calls and A LOT of announcers going wtf.

(01-07-2024, 08:20 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Or rigged in the fact that they may nor be trying to select the winner but trying to make a good show. Calls or no calls specifically at the end of games to drive up scoring or help teams get a chance to score at the end.