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RE: Our offensive scheme - THE PISTONS - 09-09-2024

(09-09-2024, 12:11 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I'm waiting for the All-22 to show up so I can watch it a little more in-depth. However, someone on Twitter has access to it. I have a little bit of confirmation bias here, but it leads me to pointing more to Burrow. Take a look at this...

 

This is a routine throw for Burrow. Instead, he doesn't even read Chase. I am not sure what this is. Is this play drawn up to not include Chase in his progressions against single high? I have a hard time believing that because that leaves a 1-on-1 with Chase. Did he not see the safety rotate down? I don't get it, but Chase is open. He has to get him that ball. 

 

I am not a huge fan of the playcall here, being third down and running double double-moves, but you have a shot here to Iosivas. He has inside leverage but with the safety shaded towards Chase, Burrow has a lot of field to throw this ball to. This is a play that he normally takes a shot on, but...he just doesn't. He panics, drops his eyes and takes a checkdown. In fact, he does the same thing in the video above. He did it all day, it felt like. He looked extremely uncomfortable all game.

I don't know what it is and I don't have a strong opinion on "scheme" or anything just yet because I haven't really seen what they are doing. What I do have an opinion on is that Burrow looked very shaky yesterday. He panicked quickly, resorted to his checkdown quickly and looked to bail even when there wasn't pressure. He had good protection yesterday. The line did their job in pass pro. 

No one was open there outside of the dumps. The Patriots had 4 guys playing right at the 1st down marker. So Burrow needed to either dump it, or hold it longer to let someone get open.

I wonder if a quick slant works there?

RE: Our offensive scheme - Millhouse - 09-09-2024

I saw on twitter that the Bengals ran motion 28% percent of the snaps, and apparently 4th lowest in the league for week 1 so far.

I don't understand why they run so few motions. Usually it could help reading a defense better or perhaps getting a better matchup if throwing it. Maybe even pull a defender away from where they are running it too.

Anyways not that it matters but the bottom 8 teams with least motions all loss for what that is worth. Not proof that it is a must by any means, but I would think using it more often can only be a benefit.

RE: Our offensive scheme - 125250 - 09-09-2024

Burrow is a shell of what he once was.

RE: Our offensive scheme - Nicomo Cosca - 09-09-2024

(09-09-2024, 10:58 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: That's not what I saw watching the Rams/Lions game.

He’s right.



RE: Our offensive scheme - J24 - 09-09-2024

(09-09-2024, 04:18 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I saw on twitter that the Bengals ran motion 28% percent of the snaps, and apparently 4th lowest in the league for week 1 so far.

I don't understand why they run so few motions. Usually it could help reading a defense better or perhaps getting a better matchup if throwing it. Maybe even pull a defender away from where they are running it too.

Anyways not that it matters but the bottom 8 teams with least motions all loss for what that is worth. Not proof that it is a must by any means, but I would think using it more often can only be a benefit.

Burrow doesn't like it!

RE: Our offensive scheme - Housh - 09-09-2024

(09-09-2024, 04:18 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I saw on twitter that the Bengals ran motion 28% percent of the snaps, and apparently 4th lowest in the league for week 1 so far.

I don't understand why they run so few motions. Usually it could help reading a defense better or perhaps getting a better matchup if throwing it. Maybe even pull a defender away from where they are running it too.

Anyways not that it matters but the bottom 8 teams with least motions all loss for what that is worth. Not proof that it is a must by any means, but I would think using it more often can only be a benefit.

My best guess is Burrow doesn’t like them.


Same how he doesn’t like turning his back to the defense

If that’s true then it would make sense he doesn’t like shifts defenses make to respond to motion


He seems to be a snapshot QB. He takes a mental snapshot of the defense immediately post snap then he makes reads based off his guess off the snapshot.

RE: Our offensive scheme - J24 - 09-09-2024

(09-09-2024, 05:36 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He’s right.


That's some crazy shit! I wonder if that is happening because guys are not playing in preseason as much.

RE: Our offensive scheme - Mickeypoo - 09-09-2024

(09-09-2024, 05:36 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He’s right.


Ya, my bad.  I should have been more clear.  I just saw the Bengals game and the Rams/Lions and the Rams/Lions game and the Rams/Lions were both moving the ball well.  Didn't mean to insinuate your numbers were wrong for the NFL as a whole.

RE: Our offensive scheme - RegularGuy22 - 09-09-2024

(09-09-2024, 04:51 PM)125250 Wrote: Burrow is a shell of what he once was.

Not so sure he is a shell of former but the league has caught on to his style along with Chase, Tee, Zac and our very predictable offense. That first year they were new and teams hadn't caught on yet, now years later they have been exposed and it appears that the entire offensive mindset of the team refuses to adapt and try different things. My opinion anyway.  Plus, the injuries have hurt his progress as well.

RE: Our offensive scheme - Dr.Z - 09-09-2024

(09-09-2024, 10:53 AM)Whatever Wrote: Well, the easiest way to beat Cover 2 is run against it and force the defense out of it.

Moss averaged 4.9 ypc..but only 9 carries.  Not enough to take the Pats out of it.

Thank you. It’s been the same problem for years. I hoped that they would’ve learned something from the San Fran game , and the handful of games with Browning after his first start (the one where they also refused to establish a run game ). I’ve made about 10 posts pretty much saying this same thing. It’s maddening and silly. I worried it would be more of the same thing as soon as they hired Pitcher and kept talking about familiarity etc.

RE: Our offensive scheme - TheLeonardLeap - 09-09-2024

Quote:Burrow mostly tipped his hat to the Patriots, instead: "They were doing a good job keeping everything in front," Burrow said. "I've got to take what the defense gives me."

This always struck me as a weak losing mentality. Why are we always talking about how the opponents are able to dictate terms to us and we have to just live with it? Why is it never us forcing our will upon our opponents?

We have allegedly a top QB. We have allegedly a top WR (and a second alleged #1 WR normally). I don't remember Peyton Manning ever having to run a pathetic offense because the defense said he wasn't allowed to do anything good or exciting.

RE: Our offensive scheme - reuben.ahmed - 09-09-2024

"I've got to take what the defense gives me" is 1) letting them dictate how they want you to play the game 2) afraid to take a chance on a stud WR and get an INT.

RE: Our offensive scheme - Nicomo Cosca - 09-09-2024

(09-09-2024, 06:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: This always struck me as a weak losing mentality. Why are we always talking about how the opponents are able to dictate terms to us and we have to just live with it? Why is it never us forcing our will upon our opponents?

We have allegedly a top QB. We have allegedly a top WR (and a second alleged #1 WR normally). I don't remember Peyton Manning ever having to run a pathetic offense because the defense said he wasn't allowed to do anything good or exciting.

Yeah, I don’t like that at all. And meanwhile Chase is seeing the Miami WR’s go crazy.

[Image: Screen_Shot_2017-11-10_at_10.36.15_AM.jpg]

Chase and Yoshi getting the same amount of targets is inexcusable.

RE: Our offensive scheme - casear2727 - 09-09-2024

(09-09-2024, 06:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: This always struck me as a weak losing mentality. Why are we always talking about how the opponents are able to dictate terms to us and we have to just live with it? Why is it never us forcing our will upon our opponents?

We have allegedly a top QB. We have allegedly a top WR (and a second alleged #1 WR normally). I don't remember Peyton Manning ever having to run a pathetic offense because the defense said he wasn't allowed to do anything good or exciting.

(09-09-2024, 06:50 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: "I've got to take what the defense gives me" is 1) letting them dictate how they want you to play the game 2) afraid to take a chance on a stud WR and get an INT.



Zac affirmed and endorsed this at his presser today.  He exuded zero masculinity while in his attempt to justify that we could not overcome the Patriots "will", even as early as halftime.  That was embarrassing, lets carry purses on the field.

RE: Our offensive scheme - Housh - 09-09-2024

Yall hitting on some huge issues Iv had with our offense and i do believe this is the year the mainstream gets ahold of these criticisms because i literally just saw Dan Orlosky speaking on our offense and he is the 1st talking head Iv seen have the balls to say our offense is and has been trash.



He said there’s a lack of creativity, the team is all finesse and the drives seem like are designed to take 15 plays at 4 yards a catch.

Direct quote from Dan Orlosky’s NFL post game rant “I’m frustrated watching this offense because all they do is line up in shotgun and throw 4 yard routes.”


I made a series of posts on Twitter or YouTube or maybe here where i said the offense was too “smart guy-ish”. It seems like every route is designed to only go 5 yards and it seems like we call a lot of symmetrical plays too. Meaning if one side of the field has an out and a go the other side has that same route combo. I noticed that maybe 2 years ago and just haven’t said anything.

We are wildly predictable and the types of routes we call would be suited for us if all our WRs were healthy and we had a fire slot WR who had the IQ and route running skill to keep the offense going but we don’t. After Chase and Tee our WRs are hands guys not route runners. When you send a WR whose poor at selling routes to run a curl you essentially end up just bringing a defender to the area cause none of these guys after Tee and Chase are gonna get open.

RE: Our offensive scheme - cincyfan429 - 09-09-2024

(09-08-2024, 11:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Our offensive scheme seems inadequate. Our wrs don't get open. The run game underperforms no matter how many lineman we bring in.

I think the issue is largely scheme. Going Cover 2 basically blows our offense up.

In our SB year, how many big plays came from Chase or Higgins making a crazy good catch or run after catch? That's not a scheme, it's relying on individual talent to overcome lack of scheme.

I saw some next generation stats and Burrow only threw 5 or 6 balls over 10 yards. Dink and dunk.

Now that Burrow is highly paid, it takes salary away from other parts of the team. So you have less veterans and more young guys to make mistakes. And our scheme doesn't help them.

Because the O-line sucks and Joe has no time. Plus the HC is terrible

RE: Our offensive scheme - Soonerpeace - 09-09-2024

(09-09-2024, 10:21 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And...I saw that Burrow had great pocked time. He was pressured at a very low rate.

We had 8 possessions. 2 sacks on third down killed 2. Fumble by Hudson another. Scored on 2. Cappa penalty another. Last drive Joe sucked. The other Isovias came up a yard short.10 points is 10 points. But plenty of blame to go around.

RE: Our offensive scheme - Timanky12 - 09-09-2024

(09-09-2024, 12:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We likely do play Cover 2. I think every team probably does. It's just how much.

Cover 2 just takes deep throws away or makes them harder. It opens up other areas of the field for teams to attack.

Apparently, it doesn’t open up other areas of the field for us.

RE: Our offensive scheme - NotBigzo - 09-09-2024

I alluded to a lot of these same things after the Jacksonville game last year when it made me question zac and Burrow more l, not less.


Glad to see you guys finally coming around

RE: Our offensive scheme - Nately120 - 09-09-2024

(09-09-2024, 07:42 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I miss the Burrow that threw for 525 against the Ravens in 2021. That was a long time ago. Where the hell is Air Burrow. Maybe his wrist is not 100% and they're catering to his injuries, like last year.

Either choose to let your best players control the game (why are you punting late in the 4th, I guess our punter is our best player right now though) - or play to the other team's weaknesses. Which one were we trying to do yesterday? 

Much like last year if burrow is hurt to the point where he's playing like Kenny Pickett we should be starting a healthy Browning. Burrow is either playing or on IR, no room for anything else it seems.