(06-09-2015, 07:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not saying folks are making things up; however, the weaknesses we seem to have identified here are exactly opposite of this scouting reports:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/russell-bodine?id=2543622
Carries a load in his punch and plays with vinegar.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1737148/russell-bodine

"Strong initial punch on defenders when he meets them, showing enough power to knock some off-balance and to the ground. "

I think Bodine will be just fine. He learned on the fly last year. As the game slows down for him, his natural physicality will take over.

(06-09-2015, 07:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not saying folks are making things up; however, the weaknesses we seem to have identified here are exactly opposite of this scouting reports:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/russell-bodine?id=2543622
Carries a load in his punch and plays with vinegar.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1737148/russell-bodine

"Strong initial punch on defenders when he meets them, showing enough power to knock some off-balance and to the ground. "

I think Bodine will be just fine. He learned on the fly last year. As the game slows down for him, his natural physicality will take over.

(06-09-2015, 07:05 PM)CincyProduct Wrote: This in a nut shell means players cant improve unless they do what you said. IF you meant something else you might want to clean this up.

Then bonesaw saids this:
This is your direct quote after bonesaw made his comment:

Here according to your criteria you labeled things rookies can improve on, none of them none of the things players can improve had anything to do with hands according to you. And nothing on this list is the complaint you had against Bodine. So according to you if he is not improving what is approved by you he cant improve.

And also you may not have directly said team should cut/move on from him, but you did say have competition with other guys because you were concerned about his hands. Which to me means move on from him.

You did a lot of indirect talking and pointing to the logical conclusion based on the facts as you see them. 

All that above is why i felt as though you said he could not improve and also why i felt as though you have a "the team should cut/move on from him" attitude. Would be nice if you could post any sources that agree with you.

(06-09-2015, 07:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is only your opinion.  You have nothing to back it up.

You can not list a single "physical limitation" that would keep Bodine from improving in this area.

I can provide hundreds of examples of players improving from their rookie seasons.  and it often has to do with technique instead of getting bigger and stronger.

(06-09-2015, 07:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not saying folks are making things up; however, the weaknesses we seem to have identified here are exactly opposite of this scouting reports:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/russell-bodine?id=2543622
Carries a load in his punch and plays with vinegar.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1737148/russell-bodine

"Strong initial punch on defenders when he meets them, showing enough power to knock some off-balance and to the ground. "

I think Bodine will be just fine. He learned on the fly last year. As the game slows down for him, his natural physicality will take over.

(06-09-2015, 09:21 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Oh college scouting reports. Neat. 


Look I can do it too:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/643144-andy-dalton-2011-nfl-draft-scouting-report
Dalton does not get rattled in the pocket 


http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/andrew-dalton?id=2495143
Dalton is a well prepared player that scans the whole field and makes solid decisions

Not everything translates. Not every report is accurate after a year in the NFL.

(06-09-2015, 09:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I agree awareness dos not always translate; however, that doesn't make Bodine any weaker in the upper body or with his punch. He may never translate well to the NFL, but it's not because of his weak punch and hands strength.

I agree not every report is accurate; even some on a message board miss the mark.

There was actually a guy on the Mothership that suggested Bodine's arms were too short to snap the ball. 

(06-09-2015, 09:38 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I don't see why people (fred and cincy) got so mad I suggested it might be hard for him to get better but not that it was impossible or he should be cut, despite what cincy thinks I said. 

(06-09-2015, 09:16 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Short arms.
Poor hand strength.
Lack of core strength.

(06-10-2015, 01:16 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Short arms have nothing to do with initial punch.  And as far as recovering when the defender beats him off the block that is all about footwork instead of arm length. You can't "reach" to maintain a block.  It is all about moving the feet.  Long arms are basically only a big advantage in pass blocking to keep the defender from getting his hands on you.

Bodine does not have poor hand strength, and if he does lack core strength then even you agree that that can be corrected.

(06-09-2015, 09:38 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Right. So why even post it?
Does it make him weaker? No. But he's not going up against ACC DTs he can out muscle and get by with his bad form. He's facing longer and stronger defenders. 
The competition is stronger. 

Everyone is wrong eventually.
I never said he couldn't get better. It'd just be an uphill battle. I don't see why people (fred and cincy) got so mad I suggested it might be hard for him to get better but not that it was impossible or he should be cut, despite what cincy thinks I said. 

I'm in favor of getting the 5 best OL on the field. Whether it includes Bodine or not, I do not care. As long as it is the best lineup we could produce. 

(06-10-2015, 04:43 PM)CincyProduct Wrote: I did not get mad, this is a discussion board and i did not agree with what you posted and explained to you why...Or are you telling me that I got mad? Just like you made up the criteria for how some one can improve based on what?

(06-07-2015, 11:53 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: That's part of my logic behind why I am pessimistic about a player like Bodine really being able to take the next step. 

Maualuga was too limited an athlete to really change his physique enough to change as a player. He's always going to be a downhill thumper at LB.

It's really rare a guy can truly change how they play, especially with physical limitations. 

(06-10-2015, 11:30 PM)Slappy from New Haven Wrote: He was a rookie, that started, calling signals, that anchored a top ten rushing attack, that played all 16 games as starter.

What is the next step you are worried about?

(06-07-2015, 10:00 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Overall this is another area I have concern about long-term ability to really improve. Where he struggles here is similar to how he struggled blocking guys in the 1/0 gaps. He loses the hand battle, loses leverage and doesn't have enough behind him to stone it. Tight in the hips and late to the party. As with the 1/0 blocking, when teams start doing this, the coaches need to find ways to minimize the effect these have on the game, and for the most part they did. Quick passes and RBs picking up what's not blocked. It isn't perfect and can limit the offense.

In the end, can Bodine find a way to transform himself as a player? I don't know, I'm not overly optimistic. Too often you see defenders get off his blocks with too much ease and get in on a play.

(06-08-2015, 11:19 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Rookie mistakes are things like missing a snap count, false starts or general brain farts.  Bodine's problems extend beyond rookie mistakes. Players rarely change with their hands, you can fix things like bad footwork, false steps, base too wide etc...but the problem with hands is that they are more connected to the attitude. The big punch off the snap, quick inside hands. Bodine's short arms and lack of punch make it very difficult for him to win positioning. 


Thanks. 

(06-09-2015, 06:27 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Disagree.
You cannot take a guy who gets wide in his hands and turn him into a puncher on the inside. 
You can coach tweaks in hand placement. You can't change how a guy gets his hands on a defender.


Bodine often ends up with his hands outside the frame because he's slow to the punch and doesn't have the length to battle back inside when the defender extends. 
That's a physical limitation not a technique one. 

Feet are easier to fix than hands. Hands are more instinctive. 

I do agree about where the hands SHOULD be. Problem is, Bodine doesn't get his hands there quickly enough (slow/wide punch) and he doesn't have the length to recover. 

(06-10-2015, 05:04 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: No, you just made random conclusions and said that's what I said. That's why I said you were mad. 


You harped on things I never actually said. 

(06-10-2015, 05:04 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: No, you just made random conclusions and said that's what I said. That's why I said you were mad. 


You harped on things I never actually said. 

(06-10-2015, 02:47 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Short arms have everything to do with an initial punch when it's slow and the defender gets his hands on Bodine first and he can't recover. 

Then why do defenders get off his blocks easily when Bodine does make the block?