(12-08-2016, 05:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Not saying those are not some good Lineman but what happened to Zeitler this year?

He has played poorly all by himself. I know he had the turnstyle next to him and Bodine on the left but still.

He regressed this year.

Also, it is not all who you draft, it is how you develop them and he was bad with Livings, Gutcheck, Cook and
now Bodine, Og and Fisher. He has been here for like 25 frickin' years as well, i think it is high time for a change.

(12-08-2016, 05:28 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I'm torn on Alexander.  The last few drafts haven't been good, but you can't overlook the following guys that he drafted:

Willie Anderson
Levi Jones
Eric Steinbach
Kevin Zietler
Andrew Whitworth
Clint Boling

That's a pretty good set of guys

(12-08-2016, 04:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Are you talking about Fisher or Ogbuehi?

Ogbuehi has a good skill set ideally to play LT in the NFL, but his actual experience and performance at LT in college was little and lackluster.
He started his college career in 2012 as a guard and then had a great season at RT in 2013.
In 2014, he started at LT and was hit-or-miss, eventually shifting between LT and RT for the remainder of the year.

Ogbuehi's biggest problem even back in college was having the strength and anchor to keep defenders at bay. His athleticism was off the charts, which PA obsessed over (same with Fisher).
Unfortunately, Ogbuehi still displays that lack of strength and anchor at the NFL level, at least when he was in at RT. Perhaps LT will serve him better if/when he faces faster edge rushers who try to go around him rather than through him. Hopefully he also really adds strength within the next year or so and also learns better technique so he can actually succeed in the NFL at tackle.

Jake Fisher played both LT and RT at Oregon.
He played RT in 2012-2013 and LT in 2014. He also played guard in 2011.

(12-09-2016, 11:41 PM)jason Wrote: I'm definitely not an expert on this matter. You mention that DEs who line up against the RT generally try to plow through with a bull rush. Is Carlos Dunlap unusual on that side of the line? That dude just uses athleticism, and finesse. I'm sure he's strong as shit too, but you no what I mean.

On a side note, Dunlap is on fire disrupting the passing game this year.

(12-07-2016, 10:54 PM)eoxyod Wrote: Ok then so question, shouldn't he receive the same amount of blame for trotting out TJ Clemmings every week, despite him being easily the worst LT in all of football? He's getting his QBs killed but he still starts every week. The answer to this is just that sometimes your hands ARE tied. Ogbeuhi is terrible. That much is true. But Winston is equally terrible. Winston has given up 2 strip sacks. He has caused Andy a ton of pressure too. However having Ced out there gives you much more upside with his athleticism and youth. While it obviously didn't work out, it's hard to say the coaches are left with many other options. If Fisher were showing better signs in practice then he would have been out there often. It sucks, it was a bad pick, but they are working with what they have.

(12-10-2016, 11:18 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Pretty sure that Minnesota's o-line has been decimated by multiple injuries. I haven't fact checked it but thought I had heard or read something like that. I know they lost Smith at RT.

(12-07-2016, 10:33 PM)Burma Wrote: It's impossible to know who to be irritated with, honestly.  Is Paul handcuffed, by his bosses, in who he plays? Or is he the one responsible for playing guys that are failing.  I don't think I have ever heard who makes the calls on these things.  It's not your typical organizational structure.  Until I know for certain I will just have to maintain a general testiness and willingness to reassign blame as new facts arise.  Having said that, I wholly expect to engage in wanton and random accusations of incompetence, which are wildly satisfying in these times of uncertainty. 

(12-08-2016, 03:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: People who want to give Andy's quick release for the O-lines protection the last few don't know what they are saying.  Even when Andy threw the deep ball that he could not release immediately he was getting good protection.  Also he was not getting hit.  If his quick release was all that was keeping him from getting sacked then he would still be hit or rushed more than other QBs and that just was not happening.

A quick release can help keep a QB from getting sacked, but it can't keep him from getting pressured or hurried.  We are only talking about one or two tenths of a second.

(12-11-2016, 05:20 AM)wolverine515151 Wrote: What makes you think that deep throws allow the qb to take longer to throw the ball. 

(12-11-2016, 11:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton makes a lot of throws almost as soon as he touches the ball.

(12-08-2016, 05:49 PM)Wyche Wrote: I just think time has passed him by.....I give him a lot of grief, partially because I played on the line, partially because of his ties to the abyss, and partially to watch fred squirm   ......but in reality, I think he's just outdated and stubborn.

(12-09-2016, 07:15 PM)Derrick Wrote: Agree with this. WW mentioned the Nate Livings fiasco. I am having a brain freeze and don't recall the details of that fiasco. Can I buy a vowel, please?

(12-11-2016, 02:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: PA just kept starting Livings over Evan Mathis for like 2 or 3 years while Livings was clearly worse.

(12-11-2016, 01:43 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: I'm leaning toward stubborn, but since I have zero experience playing on the line, how would you describe the "outdated" aspect? Beyond fundamentals, what are the advancements in OL technique when comparing PA's early days to present day? 

(12-11-2016, 06:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No he did not.  Mathis started ahead of Livings in games 4-8 in '09 before getting injured.  In 2010 he did not deserve to start.

(12-11-2016, 01:20 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: That statement is absolutely untrue. The average amount of time he throws the ball is 2.5 seconds.  80% of his throws will be less than 10 yards.  So most of those short passes less than 10 yards will be thrown in 2.5 seconds.  His long throws will be unleashed in 2.5 seconds

The bottom line is whether its a short or long throw the ball is usually out in 2.5 seconds.

(12-12-2016, 09:13 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure I understand what you are saying.

If 80% of his passes are thrown in less than 2.5 seconds and the other 20% are thrown on 2.5 seconds then wouldn't his "average" be much less than 2.5 seconds?