(01-18-2017, 01:39 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: So true!!! It is like speaking with a toddler. The funny part is most of these posters are pretty sharp on the topic of football, they are just Dalton dumb. They are hyper critical of all other QB's but don't hold Andy accountable for anything. They fail to see they win the argument if the stance is "Andy is an adequate starter that is cable of taking a solid team deep into the playoffs". Instead they want to make RIDICULOUS that he is a top tier QB...lol!

I do respect their loyalty however. These are the people you would want in a no win situation...they are the fan equivalent to the band on the titanic. The best part is they have no idea why people think they are so out of touch. 

(01-18-2017, 01:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I understand that folks in here like to think themselves as footbal savy and I see a lot saying it is not Brady; it is the system. Do they think the Patriots are dumb? If a QB that historically finishes mid-pack in QB ratings can do what Brady can do in New England then why do they pay him over $20 mil a year?

They have shown they are not shy about letting big names walk. Why didn't they keep that winner Matt Cassel, or Hoyer, or Mallet? Why did they extend Brady when they have Jimmy G in house?

Folks saying Andy could do what Brady can do in NE or Brady would do no better than Andy here are doing nothing more than making things up. It makes it hard to take their football acumen seriously.

(01-18-2017, 01:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I understand that folks in here like to think themselves as footbal savy and I see a lot saying it is not Brady; it is the system. Do they think the Patriots are dumb? If a QB that historically finishes mid-pack in QB ratings can do what Brady can do in New England then why do they pay him over $20 mil a year?

They have shown they are not shy about letting big names walk. Why didn't they keep that winner Matt Cassel, or Hoyer, or Mallet? Why did they extend Brady when they have Jimmy G in house?

Folks saying Andy could do what Brady can do in NE or Brady would do no better than Andy here are doing nothing more than making things up. It makes it hard to take their football acumen seriously.

(01-18-2017, 01:43 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Dalton has a career 57.8 passer rating in the playoffs. He's thrown 1 TD and 6 Ints.

Tom Brady had a career 87.4 passer rating in the playoffs. He's thrown 58 TD's and 30 Ints.

Big difference.

(01-18-2017, 01:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: For damn sure, that is why i say it is unfair to compare them in the Playoffs.

But to be fair the whole team has played terrible in all our playoff games besides our Defense
last year against the Steelers and Dalton was not in that game.

(01-18-2017, 01:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: For damn sure, that is why i say it is unfair to compare them in the Playoffs.

But to be fair the whole team has played terrible in all our playoff games besides our Defense
last year against the Steelers and Dalton was not in that game.

(01-18-2017, 01:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: For damn sure, that is why i say it is unfair to compare them in the Playoffs.

But to be fair the whole team has played terrible in all our playoff games besides our Defense
last year against the Steelers and Dalton was not in that game.

(01-18-2017, 02:07 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Here is the disconnect. 
The argument that if all things are equal: Dalton = Brady means that all things being equal: Keenum = Dalton = Brady.

If you believe that all NFL QB's are of equal talent, intellect, leadership ability, guts, and spirit and are willing to say that Dalton could easily be replaced by any NFL QB. Then and only then does your argument (albeit wrong) has foundation.

If you are not willing to say that Dalton could be equally replaced by the likes of Keenum, Fitzpatrick, Bortles, Wentz, Kaepernick, Oswieler, Siemian (all lower rated QB's in 2016 by QBR ANDY is 20th) then you can not make the claim he could equally replace any of the QB's ahead of him (the list is too long to name...but is is EVERYBODY not listed)

(01-18-2017, 02:08 PM)Wyche Wrote: This is a good point.  Brady threw two picks against the Texans, and nearly a couple more.  The Patriots also fumbled a kickoff.  They didn't implode, the Bengals ALWAYS do.

This team isn't mentally tough when it counts in the postseason, Dalton included.  To me, it all falls back on coaching.

(01-18-2017, 10:10 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Your first paragraph sounds like you are mentioning them in the same breath, which counters your previous statements that it is "silly".

I know very well that Dalton hasn't produced on the biggest stage, but I would add that his coaches, defense, weapons, etc. didn't as well where Tom (who was a glorified game manager in those early super bowls) has a more complete performance from his team.  

Nowhere did I say Dalton was better than Brady, especially in the postseason, but the point I was contending was that it isn't right to say they can't be mentioned in the same breath.  That's all.  Look no further than Aaron Rogers:  one super bowl despite being one of the best, or maybe THE best QB of all time...his team around him didn't perform up to the competition.  It takes a whole team.  No team has won a Super Bowl simply because they had a great QB.  Ditto Marino.  It takes a team.  

(01-18-2017, 02:21 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All NFL QB's don't have equal talent and i never stated such. Dalton could not be easily replaced by any NFL QB.

Why does my argument have no foundation when i say it is only fair to judge these two STARTING QB's in the regular
season? We have a shitty HC a shitty OL coach and these hurt our QB and would hurt even a QB like Brady who has the
best HC in the NFL and arguably the best OL coach in the NFL.

I don't understand your argument and don't understand why you don't understand this.

Brady is killer in the Playoffs and in the big games and we all know it. But coaching is also a factor.


Damn rights Wyche, comes down to the coaches in the end. Dalton has bad ones and Brady does not.

(01-18-2017, 11:27 AM)Jpoore Wrote: a superior scheme can beat a superior team any day 

(01-18-2017, 02:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It goes beyond the playoffs for Dalton. Some guys rise in big games. He fades.

Primetime games. Games against the Steelers. He just doesn't elevate his play.

Maybe one day he will...but he's almost 30 years old.

(01-18-2017, 02:42 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Seriously? So there's no need for good players if they have a other worldly scheme? 

(01-18-2017, 02:39 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Nate that post was not necessarily pointed directly at just your argument but the argument of any that believe Dalton would be as successful as Brady (and  large number of other Top QB's)  given just a QB swap. I quoted your post and maybe should not of. Apologies. 

There are very few if any subjective knowledgeable football minds that would say the Pats would be the same with Andy at the Helm rather than Brady. Those same knowledgeable football minds would say that Brady would have done much more than has been accomplished by Andy in Cincy...even with Marvin as the coach. A QB of the top level would lessen the need and impact of Marvin. Andy is a victim of his own inability to take over a game and lead the team. 

Here is a question for anyone that posses the argument that these two QB's are basically capable of the same results. 

It what playoff game that Andy has lost do you feel that Brady would not have won?
Conversely in what playoff game has Brady lost that Andy would have lead them to victory? 

(01-18-2017, 02:47 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: The timeless conundrum

is it the Jimmy's & Joes or the X's & O's 

(01-18-2017, 02:52 PM)Wyche Wrote: Andy is most certainly not Tom Brady.  That said, it does hold merit that if he (or Palmer for that matter), had been developed under superior tutelage, they would most likely have better success than they have had in this cesspool of nepotism, inept management, and piss poor in-game coaching.  

Would Brady win a playoff game or two here (playing his entire career under these deadbeats)?  Most likely.  A Super Bowl?  Not a chance.

(01-18-2017, 02:39 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Nate that post was not necessarily pointed directly at just your argument but the argument of any that believe Dalton would be as successful as Brady (and  large number of other Top QB's)  given just a QB swap. I quoted your post and maybe should not of. Apologies. 

There are very few if any subjective knowledgeable football minds that would say the Pats would be the same with Andy at the Helm rather than Brady. Those same knowledgeable football minds would say that Brady would have done much more than has been accomplished by Andy in Cincy...even with Marvin as the coach. A QB of the top level would lessen the need and impact of Marvin. Andy is a victim of his own inability to take over a game and lead the team. 

Here is a question for anyone that posses the argument that these two QB's are basically capable of the same results. 

It what playoff game that Andy has lost do you feel that Brady would not have won?
Conversely in what playoff game has Brady lost that Andy would have lead them to victory? 

(01-18-2017, 02:57 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Man Wyche...you do make a strong point! 

I literally laughed out loud due to the spot on frankness of this statement "This cesspool of nepotism, inept management, and piss poor in-game coaching"
 

(01-18-2017, 02:08 PM)Wyche Wrote: This is a good point.  Brady threw two picks against the Texans, and nearly a couple more.  The Patriots also fumbled a kickoff.  They didn't implode, the Bengals ALWAYS do.

This team isn't mentally tough when it counts in the postseason, Dalton included.  To me, it all falls back on coaching.

(01-18-2017, 02:52 PM)Wyche Wrote: Andy is most certainly not Tom Brady.  That said, it does hold merit that if he (or Palmer for that matter), had been developed under superior tutelage, they would most likely have better success than they have had in this cesspool of nepotism, inept management, and piss poor in-game coaching.  

Would Brady win a playoff game or two here (playing his entire career under these deadbeats)?  Most likely.  A Super Bowl?  Not a chance.

(01-18-2017, 02:52 PM)Wyche Wrote: Andy is most certainly not Tom Brady.  That said, it does hold merit that if he (or Palmer for that matter), had been developed under superior tutelage, they would most likely have better success than they have had in this cesspool of nepotism, inept management, and piss poor in-game coaching.  

Would Brady win a playoff game or two here (playing his entire career under these deadbeats)?  Most likely.  A Super Bowl?  Not a chance.

(01-18-2017, 03:10 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: As usual, I agree with Wyche's take. No I don't think Dalton is near Brady's level...particularly when it comes to killer instinct. Do I believe much of that comes from which franchise and coach they play for? You bet.

Do I believe Brady would win a playoff game in Cincy? Maybe. I'd bet on Dalton winning a SB with Belichick over Brady winning a SB with Marv any day though. Is there anyone who would disagree with that statement?

All things equal though Brady > pretty much everyone, of course.