(03-05-2023, 06:20 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Sooner:
I disagree that lots of of teams missed on Mahomes. he went #10.  Ahead of him was Miles Garrett, Christian McCaffrey, Mike Williams, Jamal Adams, Fournette.  The Bears did choose Tribisky.

Pacheco was a much more proven commodity than Evans.  I will never get that draft selection.

I would bet that no team has been as abysmal drafting oline in the last decade as us.



My Friend Isaac Curtis:

I appreciate your list and it is difficult to read when our kicker is tiers above all others.

KC in the last 3 drafts:

2022
4th Williams - played 17 games
7th Watson - played 16 games
7th Pacheco - played 17 games
7th Johnson - played 11 games

2021
6th OL Smith - starter for 2 seasons 72 PFF grade both seasons

2020
4the Snead - started 38 games in 3 years, very good player

Normally games played/started isnt the most impressive stat, but when the team is in the AFC title game every year and wins a SB...

We have had

Volson - 53 PFF score

MoneyMac - awesome

No other starters in the last 3 seasons.  2 out of 14 starters in last 3 years.


KC is miles ahead of us when it comes to drafting.

We are pretty solid on finding quality "2nd tier guys", our defensive coaching has become excellent, Burrow and Chase are likely more exceptional that we even think.

But my concern is moving forward with the new big contracts, we have to do better identifying talented players deeper in the draft.

We gotten starter production from 2 players out of 6 last draft.

We've gotten starter production from 2 players out 10 in 2 years from the draft before.  I will add Ossai and Sample are coming on...

We've gotten production from our top 3 picks in 2020, ADG has potential, Adeniji obviously has video on Mike Brown doing something...


We need to identify that Trey Smith in the 6th, Pacheco in the 7th, Snead in the 4th. 

Volson and Lawson are the only 2 starting 4th rounders we have had since Boling. 
 
4th rounders:
Shelvin
Smith
Billings
Finley
Wren
Jordan
Walton
Malone
Glasgow
Westerman
Bodine
Porter
Charles
Shaw
Hardison

Outside of Lawson & Cordell, ADG  is the superstar of the 4th round since 2011. We must do better.







 

(03-05-2023, 06:34 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Oh come on Caesar. We’ve killed it. Look at all our All Pros.

(03-05-2023, 06:49 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Been rough sledding brother.  

I get having a miss or injuries (Fisher).  Taking chances like Ogbbuehi with DJ Humphries sitting there?  Carmen over Creed, Cosmi and Banks...


The bad thing is, it doesn't matter where we draft them, we are still terrible.  

1st Rounders since 2009
Billy Price
Cedric Ogbuehi

2nd Rounders since 2012
Carmen
Fischer

The new oline evaluator/additional oline coach came on board after this past offseason right?   We can hope he does better.

(03-05-2023, 07:05 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I was being facetious as hell. It’s awful

(03-05-2023, 07:13 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Trust me I knew what you were saying.  If Jonah is healthy, the only one I am truly concerned about is LC.  I dont see him back in time, and even if he is, the back, the knee.....?  We also need Volsen to take the next step.

(03-05-2023, 07:05 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I was being facetious as hell. It’s awful

(03-05-2023, 07:13 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Trust me I knew what you were saying.  If Jonah is healthy, the only one I am truly concerned about is LC.  I dont see him back in time, and even if he is, the back, the knee.....?  We also need Volsen to take the next step.

(03-05-2023, 07:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: May be hard for some to believe but I saw some guys on TV today that could upgrade our LG spot.

(03-05-2023, 07:42 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree on Collins and even when he does make it back with all the back issues he already has and now along with the knee. How many games can he stay on the field. Moreover, his pass pro wasn't the greatest even when he was somewhat healthy last season. That knee isn't going to help against speed rushers I'm sure. I just have a hard time believing Collins is the answer at RT next season.

Williams I have doubts about as well. I'm not fully convinced he's a long term answer at LT. I'm hoping he comes back healthy and returns to what was it 2021 he played fairly well? 

Volson I'm on the fence about. He had stretches where he was decent. And a few games where he wasn't all that great. And I'm throwing out the first couple games. I'm hoping he steps it up this season. But I'm not opposed to an upgrade, at all.

(03-05-2023, 07:13 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Trust me I knew what you were saying.  If Jonah is healthy, the only one I am truly concerned about is LC.  I dont see him back in time, and even if he is, the back, the knee.....?  We also need Volsen to take the next step.

(03-05-2023, 08:11 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I thought it was sarcastic as hell. 


All true.


Would love Avila, I just think the coaches are happy with Volson there even if you aren't Bfine lol


Yeah, LC might never be the same again after the ACL and MCL tears on top of the bad back he was battling all year. He is a monster
RT and being that big doesn't help at all when coming back from these types of injuries. Sucks, I started really liking the guy in the 
Carolina game where the OL was starting to come together.

Jonah I also have doubts about, need to add a couple OT's honestly even with Carman playing decent late last season and in the Post.

Same with Volson, I love that the guy shown that the NFL isn't too big for him as a rookie which was impressive coming from such a 
small school but he isn't the most athletic LG. Have to keep our options open at all the spots except Center and RG and even then a 
versatile IOL should be an option for the future like Avila who can play Center and Guard.

(03-05-2023, 07:42 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree on Collins and even when he does make it back with all the back issues he already has and now along with the knee. How many games can he stay on the field. Moreover, his pass pro wasn't the greatest even when he was somewhat healthy last season. That knee isn't going to help against speed rushers I'm sure. I just have a hard time believing Collins is the answer at RT next season.

Williams I have doubts about as well. I'm not fully convinced he's a long term answer at LT. I'm hoping he comes back healthy and returns to what was it 2021 he played fairly well? 

Volson I'm on the fence about. He had stretches where he was decent. And a few games where he wasn't all that great. And I'm throwing out the first couple games. I'm hoping he steps it up this season. But I'm not opposed to an upgrade, at all.

(03-05-2023, 06:20 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Sooner:
I disagree that lots of of teams missed on Mahomes. he went #10.  Ahead of him was Miles Garrett, Christian McCaffrey, Mike Williams, Jamal Adams, Fournette.  The Bears did choose Tribisky.

Pacheco was a much more proven commodity than Evans.  I will never get that draft selection.

I would bet that no team has been as abysmal drafting oline in the last decade as us.



My Friend Isaac Curtis:

I appreciate your list and it is difficult to read when our kicker is tiers above all others.

KC in the last 3 drafts:

2022
4th Williams - played 17 games
7th Watson - played 16 games
7th Pacheco - played 17 games
7th Johnson - played 11 games

2021
6th OL Smith - starter for 2 seasons 72 PFF grade both seasons

2020
4the Snead - started 38 games in 3 years, very good player

Normally games played/started isnt the most impressive stat, but when the team is in the AFC title game every year and wins a SB...

We have had

Volson - 53 PFF score

MoneyMac - awesome

No other starters in the last 3 seasons.  2 out of 14 starters in last 3 years.


KC is miles ahead of us when it comes to drafting.

We are pretty solid on finding quality "2nd tier guys", our defensive coaching has become excellent, Burrow and Chase are likely more exceptional that we even think.

But my concern is moving forward with the new big contracts, we have to do better identifying talented players deeper in the draft.

We gotten starter production from 2 players out of 6 last draft.

We've gotten starter production from 2 players out 10 in 2 years from the draft before.  I will add Ossai and Sample are coming on...

We've gotten production from our top 3 picks in 2020, ADG has potential, Adeniji obviously has video on Mike Brown doing something...


We need to identify that Trey Smith in the 6th, Pacheco in the 7th, Snead in the 4th. 

Volson and Lawson are the only 2 starting 4th rounders we have had since Boling. 
 
4th rounders:
Shelvin
Smith
Billings
Finley
Wren
Jordan
Walton
Malone
Glasgow
Westerman
Bodine
Porter
Charles
Shaw
Hardison

Outside of Lawson & Cordell, ADG  is the superstar of the 4th round since 2011. We must do better.







 

(03-02-2023, 05:39 PM)Housh Wrote: I’d put money Volson doesn’t get that much better. Volson’s improvements will likely be in the IQ dept. he’ll probably be a bench, fringe starter his whole career. Which honestly getting that in round 4 would be solid

He was an old rookie

(03-06-2023, 12:05 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Here's what I'm expecting this year:
- Williams will be the starter at LT as long as he's healthy.
- Volson, Karras, and Cappa have IOL starter spots covered.
- Carman will be in the mix for RT starting duties while Collins is recovering.
- If another OT is added in the offseason, it will either be a draft pick who rides the bench for a year (or two) before taking over as a starter, or a cheaper vet who has swing tackle capability and can fill in at either spot if Williams or Carman/Collins isn't able to start.

(03-04-2023, 09:02 PM)casear2727 Wrote: If Carmen can be a starting LT for the Bengals as a second rounder I think that is a pretty good draft pick for the Bengals.  
A 4th rounder who started in every game and got better as the season progressed is a steal.  The line played well with Volson in it during the 10 game winning streak, they allowed Burrow to do his thing, regardless of PFF scores.  I don't claim the Bengals are great at drafting linemen.  But this line the Bengals built last year with 4 new guys was a capable line, where it failed was the backup RT and RG. With a tougher schedule and every team gunning for the Bengals they won more games this year than last, the line was better.


How in the world can anyone think Carmen was a steal as a 2nd round pick chosen before future All Pros, while Carmen cannot beat out ANY player at any positon on the oline?

I like Volson, but not sure how he exceeded expectations?  Did everyone expect him to be rated below #66 among guards, and that 65 rating is far exceeding those expectations?  He did beat out that "pretty good steal" 2nd rounder, but his PFF scores are not good, not even average, and must improve this season. 

You sound like you may be the official Bengals Oline evaluator of the last decade.  Without checking, I would venture that we are the absolute worst in drafting olinemen in the last 10 years or so.

(03-04-2023, 06:13 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I was not happy with the signing so im not part of that group, Carmen has still underperformed for his 2nd round pick , yes  played well enough late in year but this season will tell if he is playing to the level of his draft pick.. agree Volson was a pleasant surprise his rookie year, it in the end  we have had a sub par overall performances with our line under Pollacks tenure. and we have  spent a good amount of capital in FA and draft over the past 3 years.. we have to good improvement this year  for me to feel he is the right Oline coach for us

(03-06-2023, 01:27 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: Carmen disappointed for first two seasons, he had bust hanging from his neck.  This season I think he surprised all of us how well he protected Burrow's blind side at Buffalo and KC, how tough a test was that?  No tougher.  So drafting a 2ed rounder who can play at a high level at LT is a good pick, regardless of his unproductive first two years, imho.    Pollack built a Super Bowl contending line in 2022 by adding 4 new guys, very difficult! I'm sure we'd have been to the SB had it stayed in tact, where he's fallen short is depth.  Maybe Jonah's kneecap has been an issue for him these past two seasons and he's a better player now, maybe Carmen is the RT permanently and the draft is simply for depth.  That's the best case I guess.

(03-06-2023, 12:05 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Here's what I'm expecting this year:
- Williams will be the starter at LT as long as he's healthy.
- Volson, Karras, and Cappa have IOL starter spots covered.
- Carman will be in the mix for RT starting duties while Collins is recovering.
- If another OT is added in the offseason, it will either be a draft pick who rides the bench for a year (or two) before taking over as a starter, or a cheaper vet who has swing tackle capability and can fill in at either spot if Williams or Carman/Collins isn't able to start.

(03-06-2023, 01:41 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: This aligns with Pollack's comments and it's worth noting the OL lost three starters going into the playoffs. I'm thinking Zac, Pollack, and the staff can't help but feel the KC game might have had a different outcome with the starting OL healthy.