(12-01-2023, 09:26 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Well he's the HC, that's up to him right? So he takes blame for not taking a greater role, or lesser role. IMO he deserves a lot of blame for how terrible the offense looks compared to how it probably should with the players on the team, even during the playoff runs. Like with Burrow and 3 top WRs you have no run game at all? Like you can't figure out how to have a run game with Mixon when teams are trying to defend your pass.

When LeBron took the trash cavs team to the finals mike brown (the cavs coach) won coach of the year, it was hilarious because it was obvious all lebron. I think a lot of credit is Burrow not Zac, are we thinking otherwise? I hope Jake Brown proves otherwise. The Browns paid a **** ton of money to their QB too and their team doesn't 100% collapse, it's funny ot think the Browns could still win the superbowl without their starting QB or starting RB and we think we might go winless the rest of the season lol. Yes it's hard to win without your best player, though.

Sean Mcvay won a superbowl and has an eidetic memory, Zac does not afaik.

That being said the Bengals are probably 7-3 and not 5-5 if Burrow was healthy and not as many people would be talking bout this even though the run game is glaringly absent.

(12-02-2023, 02:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Watching the film.

There were run plays where one OL did the right block and one did not. Or where Mixon missed the hole in front of him.

Hard to tell with the lack of running plays, but there were a couple. 

Bottom line, you just don't give up on the running game after 8 carries even if it is going for 2 yards a clip.

There are times when RB's go for 0 YPC for 5 plays and break one for 30 yards, happens all the time.

You stick with it to be unpredictable and let the OL settle in and do what they do best. When Karras and Cappa came here they 
were good run blockers. All our OL are supposed to be good run blockers, but if they cannot settle in and always play in Shotgun 
it is poor coaching and not what OL like or are good at. Put the best pass protecting OL in Shotgun all the time and see them 
struggle, it will happen.

Our coaches just do not put our players in positions to succeed and that is my biggest critique of them. Lou isn't bad like this, 
but the tackling really needs to improve on Defense.


Damn rights, BTW it was Chris Evans who messed up on his assignments and Burrow got pissed off, not Trayveon. Need to see more
of all of our RB's unless Evans continue to cost us timeouts cause he doesn't know the play lol

I want to see Chase Brown on the field bad to know what we have in him. He was a great RB at Illinois. Always liked him. Like you said,
if they suck like Mixon does at times we will know that it is more on the OL and not as much on the RB's. If the backups look good, we 
might be better off than we think and only need to add a new OL coach and a couple OL, namely at RT and for depth or in case Volson
continues to blow.

(12-02-2023, 07:31 PM)Wyche Wrote: Well, one was a sixteen year vet as HC, and one was a rookie HC. Do you grade players that way, or give em a pass for rookie mistakes? 

(12-02-2023, 07:32 PM)Wyche Wrote: I've seen him moved by the QB at least a couple times. That time he couldn't hear, and it cost us a timeout. I would wager it's things like that that keep him on the bench.  If he can't get lined up, I have zero faith in him executing the play. 

(12-02-2023, 08:40 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Also funny how we look at this. We can't give all the credit to Burrow and Co. for our success. But we are gonna give all the negative credit to Evans? If a player is struggling to line up it seems fair to say could be a coaching problem. We certainly like to ignore the run game as much as possible on game days. I wonder if the same is happening behind the scenes.

(12-02-2023, 05:09 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Well, that's a very high bar to set. Browning simply isn't good enough. The Bengals offense is set up to allow their top flight QB to move the ball down the field. That guy is now gone. Cincinnati went from the #2 guy in the league to the 40th or 50th best QB. The defense is porous and there is no run game.

They aren't making the playoffs. 

(12-02-2023, 08:54 PM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: I think the mental lapses we've seen from RBs not named Mixon have something to do with lack of usage. How many seasons did it take Williams to see offensive snaps? Evans seems to be in the eternal doghouse. Brown wasn't used much, if at all, pre-IR. Ya can't get better if ya don't play.

(12-02-2023, 09:05 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: High bar? What’s your criteria to consider a coach ‘elite’?

Belicheck won with backup qbs. Andy Reid has done it. Plenty of elite coaches have done it.

Zac had his choice in the offseason for backup qbs and went with simien. He brought this on himself. You make your own luck. Elite players and coaches make their own luck.

(12-02-2023, 09:15 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I know Williams struggled with injuries. But I think you are right they can't get better if they don't play. So at a certain point we have to play them and really should have played them more by now.

(12-01-2023, 01:08 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Because of what you wrote in your last paragraph: people think with their emotions.

That's the problem with the world today, people don't use logic, common-sense or practicality and think/act based on their feelings: the, "fire Zac," nonsense is just that.

I'm not going to get into it more as this is not P&R, but, "acting on your feelings," is why a lot of the world is ****** up.

(12-02-2023, 09:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He also used 3 draft picks to trade up and get Ryan Finley.

He also brought in Brandon Allen because of his time with the Rams.

(12-02-2023, 08:34 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well I would say a rookie mistake but if the player does it for the 1st 7 games of the year he'd be pushing his luck. But what about the latter half of that post. Marvin lost his stud WR and QB while having a bad defense and it was unacceptable for him to only get 1 win after. Where Zac lost his QB and if he goes winless will anyone care? 

(12-02-2023, 08:54 PM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: I think the mental lapses we've seen from RBs not named Mixon have something to do with lack of usage. How many seasons did it take Williams to see offensive snaps? Evans seems to be in the eternal doghouse. Brown wasn't used much, if at all, pre-IR. Ya can't get better if ya don't play.

(12-02-2023, 09:05 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: High bar? What’s your criteria to consider a coach ‘elite’?

Belicheck won with backup qbs. Andy Reid has done it. Plenty of elite coaches have done it.

Zac had his choice in the offseason for backup qbs and went with simien. He brought this on himself. You make your own luck. Elite players and coaches make their own luck.

(12-02-2023, 08:40 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Also funny how we look at this. We can't give all the credit to Burrow and Co. for our success. But we are gonna give all the negative credit to Evans? If a player is struggling to line up it seems fair to say could be a coaching problem. We certainly like to ignore the run game as much as possible on game days. I wonder if the same is happening behind the scenes.

(12-03-2023, 12:15 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: There is a lot that can go into being an elite coach. To be clear, I don't think that Zac is an elite coach. However, I also balk at the idea of the bar being "making the playoffs with Browning." Maybe I am wrong, but I have no reason to believe that Browning is any better than awful relatively speaking and that is on top of the myriad of issues that Cincinnati already has. The defense has issues, the run game stinks and now the passing game also stinks. 

You're right that if ZT somehow pulled it off, he would have a strong claim to being an "elite" coach. The fact of the matter is that they definitely won't. Elite status should have a high bar, but what you're saying is effectively impossible IMO. I personally don't think there is a coach in the league that coaches this Cincinnati squad from 5-6 into the playoffs.

(12-01-2023, 12:50 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Seriously, what are we doing? The fire Zach stuff makes our fanbase look incredibly dumb.

The guy has given us more playoff success the past two years than I have had in my ENTIRE lifetime. One Super Bowl appearance, two AFC Championship games, 5 playoff wins. Were we really expecting to go places this year with Browning as our QB? I mean the season is chalked up as a loss as soon as Burrow's ligament exploded. We aren't winning anything with him the same way the Colts weren't winning anything without Peyton Manning.

Is he perfect? No. But no head coach is. People bag on his offense (although they've been REALLY good when Joe is healthy) but...

his offense is a by product of what BURROW likes to do as a QB. It's THEIR offense. It's a collaboration between ZT, Callahan, and Burrow. It won't change unless Burrow want's it to change...and it actually works when Burrow is healthy.

I guess I just don't get why everyone is so emotional and wants to fire ZT all of the sudden. Sure there are some changes that the team needs to make (running the ball better, protecting Joe better, etc.) but firing a coach seems a bit extreme and emotional and weird to me.