(12-01-2023, 10:27 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I may only agree with this because it is the only change we are likely to see and I think the committee thing is a built in excuse for Taylor as he is not the only one responsible. Do it and then no more excuses.

Yeah I think only a child can't see it's used as a built in excuse. Like Zac is showing his age by saying it's by committee lol. Man would I love to make millions a year not needing to take responsibility for anything I say or do. As most coaches do we only see CYA in those press conferences.

(12-01-2023, 09:23 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Take blame and give credit, yeah without Burrow, Zac is nothing.

Way too simplistic thinking.

Burrow and Taylor were 2-7-1 without Chase.  Does that mean Chase is more important to our team than Burrow?  I don't think so.

(12-01-2023, 09:26 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Sean Mcvay won a superbowl and has an eidetic memory, Zac does not afaik.

Sean McVay is 10-18 since last year.

Taylor is 17-10.

(12-01-2023, 07:35 PM)Bing Ghuls Wrote: How exactly were you able to see that they were "getting close to getting on the same page.  All I saw as our run game being stuffed.  Mixon had a total of 4 yards on his last 5 carries.

If Taylor had not abandoned the running game and ran Mixon another 20 times for 40 yards you would be crucifying him for that also.

Watching the film.

There were run plays where one OL did the right block and one did not. Or where Mixon missed the hole in front of him.

Hard to tell with the lack of running plays, but there were a couple. 

Bottom line, you just don't give up on the running game after 8 carries even if it is going for 2 yards a clip.

There are times when RB's go for 0 YPC for 5 plays and break one for 30 yards, happens all the time.

You stick with it to be unpredictable and let the OL settle in and do what they do best. When Karras and Cappa came here they 
were good run blockers. All our OL are supposed to be good run blockers, but if they cannot settle in and always play in Shotgun 
it is poor coaching and not what OL like or are good at. Put the best pass protecting OL in Shotgun all the time and see them 
struggle, it will happen.

Our coaches just do not put our players in positions to succeed and that is my biggest critique of them. Lou isn't bad like this, 
but the tackling really needs to improve on Defense.

(12-01-2023, 07:36 PM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: Absolutely. And please, please, PLEASE use more than Mixon. After seeing T.Williams mess up a few assignments when Burrow was healthy, I get why they may not trust RBs not named Mixon, but with a focus on running the ball this  back end of a potentially lost season, they could simplify the offense for not only Jake, but their RB room as well. I'm ready to see if Williams, Evans, and Brown can run behind this line. If they can, that speaks to the ineffectiveness of Mixon. If they can't, then we'll know it's personnel / scheme and can make decisions on that going forward this off-season.

Damn rights, BTW it was Chris Evans who messed up on his assignments and Burrow got pissed off, not Trayveon. Need to see more
of all of our RB's unless Evans continue to cost us timeouts cause he doesn't know the play lol

I want to see Chase Brown on the field bad to know what we have in him. He was a great RB at Illinois. Always liked him. Like you said,
if they suck like Mixon does at times we will know that it is more on the OL and not as much on the RB's. If the backups look good, we 
might be better off than we think and only need to add a new OL coach and a couple OL, namely at RT and for depth or in case Volson
continues to blow.

(12-02-2023, 12:59 PM)Bing Ghuls Wrote: Way too simplistic thinking.

Burrow and Taylor were 2-7-1 without Chase.  Does that mean Chase is more important to our team than Burrow?  I don't think so.

Well said.

(12-02-2023, 01:04 PM)Bing Ghuls Wrote: Sean McVay is 10-18 since last year.

Taylor is 17-10.

Facts.

(12-02-2023, 01:04 PM)Bing Ghuls Wrote: Sean McVay is 10-18 since last year.

Taylor is 17-10.

I guess we can compare things at the end of this year.  It's actually more than fitting to compare since McVay had to start backup QBs for 8 games last year.

Let me just say this: Zac has the opportunity of a lifetime to prove his coaching is the reason for the teams success. If he can make the playoffs with Browning I will call him an elite coach.

[quote='reuben.ahmed' pid='1428881' dateline='1701527268']

I remember the 6-25-1 result without Burrow or whatever horrendous start it was. So yeah Taylor is associated with Burrow's success, won't be able to separate the 2 other than that stat.
[
Yes team was bad when he took over  under Burrow 1st year only had 2 wins with with as starter, under ZT leadership we have turned it around

(12-02-2023, 04:21 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Let me just say this: Zac has the opportunity of a lifetime to prove his coaching is the reason for the teams success. If he can make the playoffs with Browning I will call him an elite coach.

Well, that's a very high bar to set. Browning simply isn't good enough. The Bengals offense is set up to allow their top flight QB to move the ball down the field. That guy is now gone. Cincinnati went from the #2 guy in the league to the 40th or 50th best QB. The defense is porous and there is no run game.

They aren't making the playoffs. 

(12-02-2023, 11:28 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Yeah I think only a child can't see it's used as a built in excuse. Like Zac is showing his age by saying it's by committee lol. Man would I love to make millions a year not needing to take responsibility for anything I say or do. As most coaches do we only see CYA in those press conferences.

Yeah on Goodberrys most recent episode he even mentioned the playing calling. I guess we have 3 guys that design plays one for short yardage, one for redzone and I guess then just our normal situation plays. He didn't remember who does what and or when/if the certain guys call the plays. Seems overly complicated and like we said very hard to have any accountability if the offense is struggling. 
I also feel like our offense had underperformed for the players that we have on the roster.

(12-01-2023, 03:20 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Are people (myself included) being emotional? Sure. But I question the emotion going the other way. When people express a desire to bring in an OC or at a minimum have Callahan call the plays why do people get so upset by that and say they're calling for Taylor to be fired? I'm sure it has been said and I've missed it but all I have said or seen anyone say is have an OC call plays. I like Taylor as a coach. We've do all those great things but let's face it the defense has carried more of a load in the bulk of our success. Which is fine it's a team sport but the offense needs to take some steps forward. Mainly in the run game and we haven't seen it in 5 years with Taylor no matter who the QB is that is starting. People want to point to Mixon with his 2 ypc last game. Fine Mixon sucks why do we refuse to give any other RB on the roster a chance. Again I like Taylor but I think if we're being honest with ourselves if we were forced to pick something we didn't like we would all say the playcalling. So why not try and improve our team?

I'd like to see more Williams and Brown. I've seen enough Evans. He can't even line up properly. 

(12-01-2023, 03:42 PM)Whatever Wrote: I think we both know forum rules prevent us from publicly calling out other posters.  

The current reality is we don't have the personnel to run anything else effectively.  Want to run 12 from under center?  Well, our TE's suck.  Want to run 21 from under center?  Well, our RB's suck, too.  

It's no small wonder that the club underperformed when...

Our star QB was hobbled with a soft tissue injury.

Our WR2 has been hurt and UDFA's and Day 3 picks have struggled to pick up the slack.

The OL has underperformed compared to the resources invested in it(draft picks and FA $'s).

We tried another one year rental on a bust TE and he's been garbage.  Our reserves suck because we haven't drafted one since '19 and continue to kick the can down the road instead of addressing the issues.

We tried to replace a proven RB2 with a 5th round pick and that blew up in our face, plus Mixon continues to show his age.  Another position group where we just continue to kick the can down the road instead of addressing the issues.

Instead of plugging holes on offense, we spent our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks in the last two drafts on defense to prepare for upcoming expiring contracts and the young players on the back end  are struggling in a complex defense. 

The defense is allowed to be complex, the offense is not. Get with the program.

(12-01-2023, 04:31 PM)Joelist Wrote: Those of us advocating for more under center and more power are just asking that we style the offense to the strengths of the players. Our line is far better at power , going left and going either G-C or G-T. It's just saying let Brown and Volson do their best thing which is blocking downhill and let Cappa pull (which is a strong point of his). And saying that being more effective running as such will help the passing game by making play action more effective is common sense. Likewise feeling that Chuck Sizzle and Yoshi and Chase Brown need more snaps is also common sense - the offense needs speed and all three have jets and also finding out now if we have keepers makes the offseason easier to approach.

Going under center is the exact opposite of that. Or are you suggesting Joe pull his head out of his ass and get under center whether he likes it, plays well out of it, or not? 

(12-01-2023, 04:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: More than just Browning.
Talking about since 2019 when he came in.
Every QB not named Burrow and also when Burrow was hobbled has resulted in poor offensive production.
It's only been when Burrow was completely healthy and on his game has the offense cooked.

The reason for the criticism is Taylor (or any offensive playcaller) should be able to morph the offense as injuries happen, poor performing positions, defense stopping one thing or another, etc.

If Sean McVay can have the Rams operating middle-of-the pack with a 5th round rookie WR (Nacua), Atwell, Higbee, an underperforming Kupp, and their cluster*** of mediocre-at-best RB stable, Taylor should be able to have the offense churning around the same with way better offensive weapons.
Or Shanahan being able to put just about any QB back there with those pass catchers and run game and be a Top 5 offense.

McVay and Shanahan are cream of the crop when it comes to offensive creativeness, I get that, but we should want an offensive playcaller who can be close to that. I don't see that creativity and adaptiveness in the playcalling for the Bengals.

LoL, but you left out Stafford as the QB. I guess he's a bum now? We discussed Shanahan and his offense taking a nose dive because Debo Samuel got hurt. That happened. This offense has produced with names like Trenton Irwin, Trent Taylor, Tanner Hudson, CJ Uzomah, etc when Higgins, Chase, and Boyd have missed time. In fact, it played pretty well without JaMarr Chase last year. The key is Joe Burrow. Always has been, always will be. Unless you guys want him out of his comfort zone and under center so he can hand the ball to a middling to below average RB. 

The more I read about this offense and its structure, the more I realize it's really Joe's show. The way he wants it. So either you dislike his ways and the coaches, or you like them. You can't mutually exclude the two.

(12-01-2023, 04:45 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: What hasn't? All I've seen is calls to have him give up playcalling. I haven't seen any fire Zac stuff going around.

You haven't been looking then...... I've seen "Fire Zac and promote Lou".

(12-01-2023, 04:51 PM)Nately120 Wrote: ZT went 2-15 when Andy Dalton was his week 1 QB, so I'm not sure you can simultaneously be pro-ZT and say that Dalton is the kind of QB decent enough for ZT to win with.

I wouldn't judge a HC or a QB who's blindside was being "protected" by Cedric Ogbuehi. That roster was GARBAGE.

(12-02-2023, 06:59 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'd like to see more Williams and Brown. I've seen enough Evans. He can't even line up properly. 

At this point in his career here the writing is probably on the wall with Evans. But I'd still like to see him get some touches. I know it was brought up he caused us a timeout by lining up incorrectly. But I can't think of any plays where he has disappointed when he actually got the ball.

(12-01-2023, 06:35 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I agree. I was just trying to point out how we look at those two seasons with completely different lenses. Actually thinking about it that season and this season have some similarities. We were 5-4 when Green went down and 5-5 when Dalton went down (although 5-6 after the game ended). But it was totally unacceptable for Marvin to only win one more game. Yet if Taylor fails to win any its just what happens when you lose your starter. Just funny the two different lenses.

Well, one was a sixteen year vet as HC, and one was a rookie HC. Do you grade players that way, or give em a pass for rookie mistakes? 

(12-02-2023, 07:29 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: At this point in his career here the writing is probably on the wall with Evans. But I'd still like to see him get some touches. I know it was brought up he caused us a timeout by lining up incorrectly. But I can't think of any plays where he has disappointed when he actually got the ball.

I've seen him moved by the QB at least a couple times. That time he couldn't hear, and it cost us a timeout. I would wager it's things like that that keep him on the bench.  If he can't get lined up, I have zero faith in him executing the play. 

(12-01-2023, 09:00 PM)jason Wrote: Maybe I just need to see Zac on Hard Knocks to become a believer... Cause damned if that scrawny nerd down in Miami doesn't come off as an amazing coach on TV.

Well, they fired the guy that had a hand in turning Miami into a winner. Pretty disingenuous to ignore that the team had largely been rebuilt by the time he got the call.