(02-12-2024, 06:16 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sure looks like Eluemunor wants to play here with his praise of Burrow and Willie. Would be all for it. I also like a few more OT's in
FA to play RT in Trent Brown and Onwenu. Would rather have a proven vet and Draft a RT for the future than be depending on a rookie
this year, they usually don't pan out for a couple years if ever as we have seen. Jonah wasn't terrible here but he also hasn't lived up
to his draft status either in my opinion. I don't trust Duke/Pollack in drafting OL.

(02-12-2024, 06:28 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Even if we all, draft experts included, agree that Eluemunor should be the pick, I don't trust Pollack not to ruin him, much-less coach him to perform like a first round draft pick.

Even if Pollack's job was to "not ruin him," I'm not sure I'd trust Pollack.

I guess we don't have much of a choice at this point though.

(02-12-2024, 06:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, sounds like Pollack is sticking around as much as a mistake as it is in keeping him.

Proven vets shouldn't regress going to another team. Cappa and Orlando Brown most notably haven't been as good here as they were in 
Tampa and Kansas City. This is a sign of bad coaching, along with the lack of growth in the young players in Volson and especially Carman.

All we can do is hope we add a vet RT like Eluemunor or the others I mentioned and hope Pollack improves in his coaching.

(02-12-2024, 06:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: There’s more to it than just “it’s the coach.” Killer goose has made some good breakdowns on why Zac and Callahan’s offense was not particularly OL friendly. It will be interesting to see if that improves at all under Pitcher.

(02-12-2024, 05:49 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: FWIW, PFF ranks for the last two OT classes:

2023:
#6: Paris Johnson, Cardinals: 60.1
#9: Darnell Wright, Bears: 62.4
#10: Peter Skoronski: 61.6 (at G)
#14: Broderick Jones, Steelers: 60.7
#27: Anton Harrison, Jags: 53.0
------------
#65: Tyler Steen, Philly: 53.2 (at G, 71 snaps)
#92: Wanya Morris, KC: 54.6
#103: Nick Saldiveri, NO: 52.1 (at G, 18 snaps)
#106: Blake Freeland, Colts: 44.2
#111: Dawand Jones, Browns: 64.7

While I am firmly against paying big for a mediocre OT in FA, the idea that some rookie OT is gonna blow our doors off year 1 seems unlikely. The best graded guy was Rd4.

But maybe it was a 1 yearcthing and a bad tackle class? Let's go back two:

#6: Ikem Ekwonu, Carolina: 65.3, 67.4
#7: Evan Neal, NYG: 44.1, 39.8
#9: Charles Cross, Seattle: 63.7, 67.6
#19: Trevor Penning, NO: 73.6 (124 snaps), 53.6
#24: Tyler Smith, Dallas: 71.4, 72.9 (at G, Pro Bowl)

That class did better, but mid 60s is about as good as it gets. Smith was 70's at G.

Jonah's first two look steller by comparison. The last two, not so much. Though the injury in '22 and switching sides mitigate it somewhat.

But I have to say, I suspect rooks killing it is the exception rather than the rule. Especially in the trenches.

(02-12-2024, 06:49 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: PFF are one measure that has its issues as a whole, the best measure is what the Bengals organization have on how they see Williams production and what they feel about the draft class,

i stated before we can;t have this loser attitude that our pick in 1st round won;t be a starter at #18, at some point you have to draft replacements, you can't hope for FA every year or a rotating door either also from all accounts this is a solid top tier RT group so looks like a good time to draft one.

(02-12-2024, 06:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, sounds like Pollack is sticking around as much as a mistake as it is in keeping him.

Proven vets shouldn't regress going to another team. Cappa and Orlando Brown most notably haven't been as good here as they were in 
Tampa and Kansas City. This is a sign of bad coaching, along with the lack of growth in the young players in Volson and especially Carman.

All we can do is hope we add a vet RT like Eluemunor or the others I mentioned and hope Pollack improves in his coaching.

(02-12-2024, 06:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: There’s more to it than just “it’s the coach.” Killer goose has made some good breakdowns on why Zac and Callahan’s offense was not particularly OL friendly. It will be interesting to see if that improves at all under Pitcher.

(02-12-2024, 11:35 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: You posted a little cartoon of the dog & the fire. It is pretty intellectually dishonest to say you were not saying he was a dum0ster fire/bust. 

Just like it is intellectually dishonest to focus on 1 year out of 5 evaluating a player. 

Just like it is intellectually dishonest to say I said Jonah was a sucess. I didn't. I just said he wasn't a bust/failure. 

Sorry that the two good years and the injury 2 years ago don't help your argument. Nor the fact that we throw a ton vs some of the best rushers in the league. Those are facts, not excuses. 

People on this board go on for pages about Pollack & how offensive lineman we get here never grade out as well as before. Well, no duh. They were not playing Pitt/Cle/Bal 2x a year in a spread offense. It is not rocket science. 

Now, having said all that, I certainly don't think Jonah is worth $15 mil. We need to get more athletic on the OL. That means drafting a higher quality of player. 

Overpaying for ANOTHER  OK-ish, average level starter is not a fix, it is a band aid. We are probably picking as high as we will with Prime Burrow AND simultaneously having the strongest OT class in memory. Gotta take advantage. 

Top tier Cs & Gs can be had late first or second regularly. Or even 3rd. But late first gor a top tier OT is rare. It has to be now. 

If you wanna pay a band-aid too, that is fine. But it is a band-aid. Not a fix. 

(02-12-2024, 07:25 PM)pulses Wrote: Tag and trade Tee and # 18 to NE for #3 and #68 and then we draft Alt

(02-12-2024, 06:13 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: For gits and shiggles  the top 18 from last year:

1. Young, QB, Carolina:  56.0
2. Stroud, QB, Houston: 82.8
3. Anderson: Edge, Houston: 81.8
4. Richardson, QB: Colts: 52.2
5. Witherspoon, CB, Seattle: 84.1
6. Johnson, OT, Cardinals: 60.1
7. Wilson, DE/Edge, Raiders: 47.1
8. Robinson, RB, Falcons: 69.1
9. Carter, DE, Eagles: 89.0
10. Wright, OT, Bears: 62.4
11. Skoronski, OG: Titans: 61.6
12. Gibbs, RB, Lions: 74.5
13. Van Ness, DE, GB: 64.0
14. Jones, OT, Steelers: 60.7
15. McDonald, Edge, Jets: 71.6
16. Forbes, CB, Washington: 50.9
17. Gonzalez, CB, NE: 80.8
18. Campbell, LB, Lions: 57.3
19: Kancey, DT, Bucs: 46.6

(02-12-2024, 11:35 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: You posted a little cartoon of the dog & the fire. It is pretty intellectually dishonest to say you were not saying he was a dum0ster fire/bust. 

Just like it is intellectually dishonest to focus on 1 year out of 5 evaluating a player. 

Just like it is intellectually dishonest to say I said Jonah was a sucess. I didn't. I just said he wasn't a bust/failure. 

Sorry that the two good years and the injury 2 years ago don't help your argument. Nor the fact that we throw a ton vs some of the best rushers in the league. Those are facts, not excuses. 

People on this board go on for pages about Pollack & how offensive lineman we get here never grade out as well as before. Well, no duh. They were not playing Pitt/Cle/Bal 2x a year in a spread offense. It is not rocket science. 

Now, having said all that, I certainly don't think Jonah is worth $15 mil. We need to get more athletic on the OL. That means drafting a higher quality of player. 

Overpaying for ANOTHER  OK-ish, average level starter is not a fix, it is a band aid. We are probably picking as high as we will with Prime Burrow AND simultaneously having the strongest OT class in memory. Gotta take advantage. 

Top tier Cs & Gs can be had late first or second regularly. Or even 3rd. But late first gor a top tier OT is rare. It has to be now. 

If you wanna pay a band-aid too, that is fine. But it is a band-aid. Not a fix. 

(02-12-2024, 06:28 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Even if we all, draft experts included, agree that Eluemunor should be the pick, I don't trust Pollack not to ruin him, much-less coach him to perform like a first round draft pick.

Even if Pollack's job was to "not ruin him," I'm not sure I'd trust Pollack.

I guess we don't have much of a choice at this point though.

(02-12-2024, 11:17 PM)sandwedge Wrote: He is a FA not a draft pick

(02-12-2024, 11:40 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Yeah. Don't know what I was thinking lol

(02-13-2024, 02:05 AM)sandwedge Wrote: All good Bradley

(02-12-2024, 05:49 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: FWIW, PFF ranks for the last two OT classes:

2023:
#6: Paris Johnson, Cardinals: 60.1
#9: Darnell Wright, Bears: 62.4
#10: Peter Skoronski: 61.6 (at G)
#14: Broderick Jones, Steelers: 60.7
#27: Anton Harrison, Jags: 53.0
------------
#65: Tyler Steen, Philly: 53.2 (at G, 71 snaps)
#92: Wanya Morris, KC: 54.6
#103: Nick Saldiveri, NO: 52.1 (at G, 18 snaps)
#106: Blake Freeland, Colts: 44.2
#111: Dawand Jones, Browns: 64.7

While I am firmly against paying big for a mediocre OT in FA, the idea that some rookie OT is gonna blow our doors off year 1 seems unlikely. The best graded guy was Rd4.

But maybe it was a 1 yearcthing and a bad tackle class? Let's go back two:

#6: Ikem Ekwonu, Carolina: 65.3, 67.4
#7: Evan Neal, NYG: 44.1, 39.8
#9: Charles Cross, Seattle: 63.7, 67.6
#19: Trevor Penning, NO: 73.6 (124 snaps), 53.6
#24: Tyler Smith, Dallas: 71.4, 72.9 (at G, Pro Bowl)

That class did better, but mid 60s is about as good as it gets. Smith was 70's at G.

Jonah's first two look steller by comparison. The last two, not so much. Though the injury in '22 and switching sides mitigate it somewhat.

But I have to say, I suspect rooks killing it is the exception rather than the rule. Especially in the trenches.

(02-12-2024, 08:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are you some sort of math wizard?