(02-03-2019, 11:13 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Just because they were 2-14 with that line does not mean that they were 2-14 because of that line.  The problems with that team, and previous ones in that era wasn't a lack of talent on the team, as much as it was a failure to perform to their abilities.  They had huge problems with morale, attitude, and general climate of organizational culture.

Where with the 2018 team, we have a team that failed to make the playoffs for the 3rd straight season, even after a 4-1 start to the season.  I think that it can be argued fairly that the offense put up average numbers this season in spite of the line being poor, rather than because of it "performing better" than the 2002 line.

Again, here is the 2002 team.  A lot of talent on that roster, equal to or greater than what we have today.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/2002_roster.htm

(02-03-2019, 11:13 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Just because they were 2-14 with that line does not mean that they were 2-14 because of that line.  The problems with that team, and previous ones in that era wasn't a lack of talent on the team, as much as it was a failure to perform to their abilities.  They had huge problems with morale, attitude, and general climate of organizational culture.

Where with the 2018 team, we have a team that failed to make the playoffs for the 3rd straight season, even after a 4-1 start to the season.  I think that it can be argued fairly that the offense put up average numbers this season in spite of the line being poor, rather than because of it "performing better" than the 2002 line.

Again, here is the 2002 team.  A lot of talent on that roster, equal to or greater than what we have today.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/2002_roster.htm

(02-03-2019, 02:23 PM)kevin Wrote: The 2002 team was the biggest sack of stinking garbage in the history of Bengals football.  What Marvin came in and did in 2003 was amazing and why I hung with Marvin as the coach so long.  Any nonsense saying the 2002 Bengals were good is total illusion and magic trick because that team stunk to high heaven.  I've been a Bengals Fan since 1968, and 2002 is as bad as it gets. Not saying 2018 was a thing of beauty, but 2002 is the worst.  Boy, did Mike Brown and The Drugstore list gut blow it on not taking the Mike Ditka trade offer. Akili Smith, boy did he stink.  2002 was the result of way too much Mike Brown and no scouts. 

You can maybe blame some of 2018 on injuries, but not 2002 team that was just pure awful, a Mike Brown built team.

(02-03-2019, 02:18 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It appears you are saying ML got a lot more out of his roster (if rosters were equal) than many give him credit for. He was not 1 or 2 games better in 2018, he was 4 games better than the 2002 roster being compared.

Maybe I am missing something you stated. For the record, I agreed ML should be gone, should have been gone a year earlier in my opinion as time for a change, something was not right starting in 2016.

(02-03-2019, 02:23 PM)kevin Wrote: The 2002 team was the biggest sack of stinking garbage in the history of Bengals football.  What Marvin came in and did in 2003 was amazing and why I hung with Marvin as the coach so long.  Any nonsense saying the 2002 Bengals were good is total illusion and magic trick because that team stunk to high heaven.  I've been a Bengals Fan since 1968, and 2002 is as bad as it gets. Not saying 2018 was a thing of beauty, but 2002 is the worst.  Boy, did Mike Brown and The Drugstore list gut blow it on not taking the Mike Ditka trade offer. Akili Smith, boy did he stink.  2002 was the result of way too much Mike Brown and no scouts. 

You can maybe blame some of 2018 on injuries, but not 2002 team that was just pure awful, a Mike Brown built team.

(02-03-2019, 02:51 PM)jason Wrote: I think all he's saying is...

Braham > Price
Jones > Glenn
Willie Anderson > Hart

But 2-14 can't be argued with. I remember games where they barely crossed the 50 yard line...

(02-03-2019, 06:54 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Jones was just a rookie Glenn has been a solid performer you cant compare the two in relative of experience at that time. We also can go Boling vs Odwyer . Bottom line nothing special with that line overall performance 2-14 is reflective of the overall team and I pointed out before stats wise 2018 did better.

(02-03-2019, 05:06 PM)Joelist Wrote: Marvin had three out of the five OL pieces when he came aboard and he went after the other two pretty quickly.

The new HC will come in with 0-2 of the pieces needed. Hopefully this will likewise means this new HC goes after Offensive Line aggressively.

(02-03-2019, 07:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: "Just a rookie", yet he was named to the NFL All-Rookie team..

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/awards/nfl-all-rookie-2002.htm

There's no way in hell that you'll convince me that a healthy, young Levi Jones isn't better to have on hand than a washed-up Cordy Glenn..

(02-03-2019, 07:32 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Price made the rookie team this year hmm.. and Corey Glenn career is parallel to Jones,  Because he was injured does not downgrade the quality of a player he has been, injured this year does not take away the player we traded for. We are trying revision history in propping up a 2-14 line that had 4 less wins, same sacks 2018 ,  11 less Passing TDs and over 1/2 yard less yard rushing avg.  Facts are facts

(02-03-2019, 02:23 PM)kevin Wrote: The 2002 team was the biggest sack of stinking garbage in the history of Bengals football.  What Marvin came in and did in 2003 was amazing and why I hung with Marvin as the coach so long.  Any nonsense saying the 2002 Bengals were good is total illusion and magic trick because that team stunk to high heaven.  I've been a Bengals Fan since 1968, and 2002 is as bad as it gets. Not saying 2018 was a thing of beauty, but 2002 is the worst.  Boy, did Mike Brown and The Drugstore list gut blow it on not taking the Mike Ditka trade offer. Akili Smith, boy did he stink.  2002 was the result of way too much Mike Brown and no scouts. 

You can maybe blame some of 2018 on injuries, but not 2002 team that was just pure awful, a Mike Brown built team.

(02-03-2019, 07:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You're exactly right, facts ARE facts.  And, the fact that I'm emphasizing here, is that when Marvin Lewis came to the Bengals, after the 2002 season, he had better OL material to work with than the incoming Zac Taylor does with the current Bengal roster.

Quick question for ya, Champ..  Who is the current Bengals RT?

(02-03-2019, 08:43 PM)samhain Wrote: Levi, Willie, Braham, and a young Steinbach, who was still one of the better LGs in the league as a rookie.  Yeah, I'd say that's better than what we have now.  A disappointing rookie C, a declining vet LT, and a serviceable LG don't compare to that group.  The current group consists of at least two guys (RG, LG) that don't start on any team in an ideal situation.

(02-03-2019, 09:02 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Give you credit for keep trying to revise 2002 team. So first Steinbach was drafted in 2003 so does not matter in comparison,  both Jones and price were on rookie team, Glenn was injured not washed up player, 2002 had 2 subpar players in Odwyer and Goff so again this was not a heads and above line.. Avg at best and you cany excuse 2-14 nice try, plus please explain why we rushed so much better in 2018 than 2002 which we had Dillion best back in our history...hmm

(02-03-2019, 07:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You're exactly right, facts ARE facts.  And, the fact that I'm emphasizing here, is that when Marvin Lewis came to the Bengals, after the 2002 season, he had better OL material to work with than the incoming Zac Taylor does with the current Bengal roster.

Quick question for ya, Champ..  Who is the current Bengals RT?

(02-03-2019, 07:32 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Price made the rookie team this year hmm.. and Corey Glenn career is parallel to Jones,  Because he was injured does not downgrade the quality of a player he has been, injured this year does not take away the player we traded for. We are trying revision history in propping up a 2-14 line that had 4 less wins, same sacks 2018 ,  11 less Passing TDs and over 1/2 yard less yard rushing avg.  Facts are facts

(02-03-2019, 09:02 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Give you credit for keep trying to revise 2002 team. So first Steinbach was drafted in 2003 so does not matter in comparison,  both Jones and price were on rookie team, Glenn was injured not washed up player, 2002 had 2 subpar players in Odwyer and Goff so again this was not a heads and above line.. Avg at best and you cany excuse 2-14 nice try, plus please explain why we rushed so much better in 2018 than 2002 which we had Dillion best back in our history...hmm

(02-03-2019, 10:30 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: We don't know yet who our OL will be in 2019. Just like the new coach had no idea he had Steinbach who had yet to be drafted when ML was hired.

It is a hard sell to say the 2-14 roster was better than the 2018 roster Taylor will inherit when they went 6-10 or 4 games better. The OL comparison also consists of you knowing the 2003 OL, we do not know the 2019 OL, not yet. But, how many hall of famers on the 2002 or 2003 OL? 
My comparison is the entire roster though, Taylor will inherit a roster just like ML did of more tan an OL.