(11-16-2020, 01:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Taylor's system just doesn't throw much to the TE.

The 2018 Rams threw for over 4500 yards and their leading TE, Gerald Everett, just had 320 yards. 

Last year Eifert caught 43 passes, but that was because our #2 and #3 WRs were Alex Erickson (43 rec) and Auden Tate (40 rec).

But I don't know why so many people are obsessing on trashing Sample.  How many people really think he is holding back this offense? 

There are only 26 TEs with as many as 20 receptions.  So it isn't like all 32 teams have super start TEs making tons of catches.  And among those 26 Sample is 8th in catch % (71.4).  His yards/target ranking is lower (19th) but far from the "bum" range.

(11-30-2020, 02:44 PM)Destro Wrote: This.

On the Bengals we are talking about Sample?Drew F***ing Sample?

(11-30-2020, 02:38 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Erickson is listed right on there.  I didn't bother listing Ross because he's only played in 2 games.

Have you seen the type of catches Tate attempts to make vs. Sample?  Could that help explain the difference in catch % for Sample vs really any of our receivers?

He mostly catches little 5 yard dumpoffs.  He's had a couple across the middle, and one nice one on the sideline, but the overwhelming majority have bs dink and dunk, that 99.9% of the skill position players in the league would make at an equal rate.

Auden Tate is a 7th round receiver people wanted to get reps as our #4/5.  Drew Sample is a 2nd round TE that is now our #1 TE in a pass heavy offense.  If your argument is to pit Sample against a low draft pick and role player, then you're basically proving the point.  The guy has absolutely no business being a #1 TE, nor should he have been taken in the first 4 rounds.

(11-30-2020, 02:46 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Exactly what most people said when we called his name at the draft...

(11-30-2020, 02:58 PM)Whatever Wrote: You blatantly added players that weren't WR's and omitted players that were to make a BS counterargument not rooted in fact.

If you're curving based on draft round, why do you trash Erickson as a returner all the time?

And what has Tate mainly caught this year?  Give up screens on 3rd downs, sitting down in zone, and busted coverages.  He made a handful of tough grabs against a washed up J-Jo who found himself unemployed the next day.  He's a WR.  He should have a better YPT than a "bum TE."

(11-30-2020, 02:58 PM)Whatever Wrote: You blatantly added players that weren't WR's and omitted players that were to make a BS counterargument not rooted in fact.

If you're curving based on draft round, why do you trash Erickson as a returner all the time?

And what has Tate mainly caught this year?  Give up screens on 3rd downs, sitting down in zone, and busted coverages.  He made a handful of tough grabs against a washed up J-Jo who found himself unemployed the next day.  He's a WR.  He should have a better YPT than a "bum TE."

(11-30-2020, 02:58 PM)Whatever Wrote: If you're curving based on draft round, why do you trash Erickson as a returner all the time?

(11-30-2020, 03:38 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I didn't blatantly add anything.  We are having a discussion about a Tight Ends production in the pass game.  What is so wrong with me adding another Tight End (Uzomah) in my list?

I listed Erickson, but I didn't list Ross because he's been inactive for 2 months.

You said that Sample has outperformed the majority of our Wide Receivers, and I'm asking which Wide Receivers are you referring to?  By what measure is he outperforming them?

If your argument is that a 2nd round, and now #1 TE is outperforming an inactive John Ross, and WR Alex Erickson then I'd say you're really reaching to look for excuses to defend clearly sub-par play.  And Auden Tate is WR4 and sees the field a fraction of the time Sample does.

(11-30-2020, 03:55 PM)Whatever Wrote:  Sample has been mediocre.

(11-30-2020, 03:51 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Guess where Sample ranks among all Tight Ends, in the entire NFL, in snaps played?

He ranks 8th. https://www.lineups.com/nfl/snap-counts/tight-end-te-snap-counts

He's had the 8th amount of total snaps played in the league at his postion. This in one of the most pass heavy offenses in the entire league.

He's top 5 in routes run.

Yet his ranks are all 25 or below. Really think about that. This guy is getting ample opportunity yet he does little to nothing.

Are we to believe that he's out there getting open and Joe Burrow just refused to throw it to an open receiver?

Are we to beieve that Zac Taylor has him running routes to not get open?

Or is more plausible that, despite all the work and opportunity, this guy just can't get open very often?

(11-30-2020, 01:11 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Do you think calling him "not top 20" is a little ridiculous?  Not only is he not "top 20", he's not top 30.

(11-30-2020, 05:57 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I've been holding out hope Sample was going to blossom this season. But he sure seems to be leaning hard towards bust.

(11-30-2020, 05:43 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: To me this is a scheme issue. Why is he top 5 in routes run when we can’t protect our QB and this guy was supposedly drafted for blocking. It’s blatant misuse of his skill set IMO.

I’d love to see the route tree, because he isn’t running little sit down routes over the middle and he should be. Either that or he is just invisible to Joe which seems unlikely.

There has been little adjustment to the scheme throughout the year and it’s sad. It doesn’t help guys like Sample make a contribution to the team.

(11-16-2020, 01:23 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Did anyone catch that play where Burrow scrambled left, all the way to the sideline, and dumped off like a 2 yard pass to Sample?  It was really a throwaway play, with no chance of success.  But I do think it kind of sums the abilities of Drew Sample.

Few, if any Tight Ends, make that catch in bounds.  And it wouldn't have mattered much if he tapped his feet in, as we would have picked up all of 2 yards on a 3rd and long.  So I'm not knocking him for that.  But what really struck me was, not only did he drop a pass lobbed to him from 6 feet away, he akwardly got all tangled up and fell down.  It just looked so unathletic.

Anways, all of the above isn't really my main point, was just curious if anyone else had a laugh at that.  My point, that Drew Sample is a bum, is based on all of what we've seen so far.

Drew Sample has 183 yards throught 9 games, with 6 of them being starts, and with him seeing a TON of reps.  He's projecting to finish the season with 325 receiving.  This is an offense that has attempted more passes than any other team in the league (more opportunites).  This is an offense, where another fellow 2nd rounder in Tee Higgins, is immediately producing as a rookie, who is projected to finish with 1,072 yards and 7 TD's.

If you look at his total body of work, which account for both seasons, he's played in 18 games.  In those 18 games he has 213 yards receiving.  That is astonishing low for any TE, much less 2nd round pick.

And making things even more ridiculous, he has ZERO TD's.  Zip, zilch, nada.  Not one single TD.  When he's had the opportunity he dropped one, and had a guy basically just outmuscle him and take the ball away from him for an iNT.

His current target average is 6.5 yards.  Really think about this number.  It tells you exactly what you see when you actually watch him targeted.  He's a check down, dump off target, with absolutely no ability to catch the ball beyond 10 yards.

Oh, and in just in case anyone wants to make the case he's too busy blocking to contribute in the pass game.  He was 3rd in the league in routes run going into last week game.  Not to mention the fact, you don't draft Tight Ends to in the 2nd round to block.

I'll wrap it up here, as none of this is really needed for people that actually pay attention to this guy.  Just look and you'll see that he's a total bum of a player.  He would have been a bad pick even in the 3rd or 4th.  You can get guys like this late in the draft or off the street.  Whoever call for or signed off on this pick should be immediately fired,