(04-21-2021, 09:19 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That "Separation" stat is silly.  Drew Sample finished SIXTH BEST IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE.  So if you want to live by "hard facts" let me hear you sing the praises of Drew Sample.

If you look at the numbers Both Boyd and Higgins have numbers exactly like or even better than many of the best WRs in the league.  Meanwhile many of the players on the top of the list are nobodies.

There does not seem to be any correlation between "separation" and "production".  So the stat is meaningless.

(04-21-2021, 03:06 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: So you're goin to look at numbers alone and make a decision. I don't work that way. I take as much data as i can find, including what actually happens on the field, that i see with my eye and make a decision based on that.

Looks like i'm gonna have to buy some software that will allow me to create a clip of all the times they created separation and caught a pass...

(04-21-2021, 06:55 PM)Whatever Wrote: There's a reason why both guys fell off a cliff when Burrow went down.  Our backups can't stick it in to covered guys like Burrow can.  That's just reality.  

(04-21-2021, 06:55 PM)Whatever Wrote: I watched all the games, too.  The numbers back up what I saw when I watched the games.

There's a reason why both guys fell off a cliff when Burrow went down.  Our backups can't stick it in to covered guys like Burrow can.  That's just reality.  

So you're going to make a highlight reel?  Because that's a good way to judge players.  

I'll save you the time and money and just bow out of the discussion now.  If you're wrong, you won't admit you're wrong, anyways, so discussing it with you it totally pointless.

(04-21-2021, 06:55 PM)Whatever Wrote: I watched all the games, too.  The numbers back up what I saw when I watched the games.

There's a reason why both guys fell off a cliff when Burrow went down.  Our backups can't stick it in to covered guys like Burrow can.  That's just reality.  

So you're going to make a highlight reel?  Because that's a good way to judge players.  

I'll save you the time and money and just bow out of the discussion now.  If you're wrong, you won't admit you're wrong, anyways, so discussing it with you it totally pointless.

(04-21-2021, 06:55 PM)Whatever Wrote: I watched all the games, too.  The numbers back up what I saw when I watched the games.

There's a reason why both guys fell off a cliff when Burrow went down.  Our backups can't stick it in to covered guys like Burrow can.  That's just reality.  

So you're going to make a highlight reel?  Because that's a good way to judge players.  

I'll save you the time and money and just bow out of the discussion now.  If you're wrong, you won't admit you're wrong, anyways, so discussing it with you it totally pointless.

(04-22-2021, 12:33 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I always admit when i'm wrong. 


It's just that it happens so infrequently. 

(04-22-2021, 08:50 AM)yang Wrote: I think we get it.  You prefer WR’s with cornerbacks draped over them.   A lot of us like the ones that can get away from those guys, at least a little. 

(04-21-2021, 07:39 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: If we want to be fogeys and resist newfangled statistics, then we can also use our eyeballs.

Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd both look quite capable in the roles they're meant to play. Clearly though they are not going to be consistently effective in generating downfield separation.

(04-19-2021, 09:11 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Not like we have not heard a player won;t be there and is... happens every year.. so we can't say for certain.. i agree he seems to be moving into late 1st round on some boards but ive seen others that have him in 2nd round... but no matter there are other fine WRs that most likely will be there at 38.. 

On a side note ive noticed more Oline going in 1st round on boards than before so that might be thinner than we think at 38 

(04-20-2021, 05:42 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I have game pass and i went back and watched TnT, isolated on all 22, on the routes they ran. The majority of the time, they don't have trouble getting separation. Neither one was asked all that often to try and just run by someone but they didn't have trouble getting open on the vast majority of routes they ran last year. 

(04-20-2021, 10:40 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yep. 

There's not a lot of speed on offense right now but that's different than if the receivers can get open consistently. 

(04-22-2021, 09:41 AM)Housh Wrote: Tee is likely as good as he’s ever going to be right now. He’s not gonna get faster or develop Chad Johnson like feet. He’s a good WR and likely will be for a decade. No problem with that. Mohammad Sanu made a good career of it

(04-22-2021, 12:06 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think it's so funny that everyone conveniently assumes all good WRs will be off the board by the 38th pick. Gotta be the first draft that's ever happened.


Yep...and tbh Higgins doesn't NEED as much separation because he's elite at contested catches.


Exactly. The pro-Chase crowd wants to make it into an overall separation issue because that makes the need seem bigger than it really is. You can get a Chris Henry style WR (whose purpose is take the top off the defense, but not necessarily to be a WR1 or even WR2) later in the draft.

In order to justify Chase at 5, they need to make it seem like Higgins and Boyd are incapable players and all routes are being affected by lack of separation.


Anquan Boldin didnt have any of those things and was much better than Mo Sanu. Heck, Higgins rookie season smoked anything Sanu ever did.

(04-22-2021, 09:41 AM)Housh Wrote: Tee is likely as good as he’s ever going to be right now. He’s not gonna get faster or develop Chad Johnson like feet. He’s a good WR and likely will be for a decade. No problem with that. Mohammad Sanu made a good career of it

(04-22-2021, 12:18 PM)TJ528 Wrote: If you want to compare though, what weapons were on that team with Sanu?  You had Marvin Jones, AJ Green, Tyler Eiffort, and Jermaine Gresham in 2014.  So lets compare those to the weapons the Bengals had in 2020.  So equal to AJ Green I guess maybe we can say Tyler Boyd?  So who are we goign to say is equal to Marvin Jones? Maybe Tate?  I mean can we say Sample is equal to Eiffort or Gresham?  

If you look at what the QB had to throw to last year I'm actually shocked Higgins didnt have more than 1,000 yards.  The receiving corp was him and Boyd...that's it.   Sanu didnt have the numbers Higgins did because of the talent around him and the numbers were spread out.  

(04-22-2021, 12:18 PM)TJ528 Wrote: If you want to compare though, what weapons were on that team with Sanu?  You had Marvin Jones, AJ Green, Tyler Eiffort, and Jermaine Gresham in 2014.  So lets compare those to the weapons the Bengals had in 2020.  So equal to AJ Green I guess maybe we can say Tyler Boyd?  So who are we goign to say is equal to Marvin Jones? Maybe Tate?  I mean can we say Sample is equal to Eiffort or Gresham?  

If you look at what the QB had to throw to last year I'm actually shocked Higgins didnt have more than 1,000 yards.  The receiving corp was him and Boyd...that's it.   Sanu didnt have the numbers Higgins did because of the talent around him and the numbers were spread out.  

(04-22-2021, 12:18 PM)TJ528 Wrote: If you want to compare though, what weapons were on that team with Sanu?  You had Marvin Jones, AJ Green, Tyler Eiffort, and Jermaine Gresham in 2014.  So lets compare those to the weapons the Bengals had in 2020.  So equal to AJ Green I guess maybe we can say Tyler Boyd?  So who are we goign to say is equal to Marvin Jones? Maybe Tate?  I mean can we say Sample is equal to Eiffort or Gresham?  

If you look at what the QB had to throw to last year I'm actually shocked Higgins didnt have more than 1,000 yards.  The receiving corp was him and Boyd...that's it.   Sanu didnt have the numbers Higgins did because of the talent around him and the numbers were spread out.  

(04-21-2021, 12:08 AM)Benton Wrote: From those clips, I'd say it was Xeno. On most of those, it's not that the WR isn't getting a step away, it's the defender is running the exact same route. There's some over throws (meh, Burrow was a rookie), but everything else in the clip from :35 seconds on is like the defenders were working out of the same playbook.

(04-22-2021, 09:06 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Can you explain how Boyd has been the best 4th down receiver and a top 3 third down receiver in the league over the last three years if he can't get open?

The claims that these guys can't get open just is not true.  It is a popular message board myth similar to "Justin Smith is a bust who would not start on most other teams.  All he does is jump on the pile to get tackle stats" or "Whitworth can't handle speed rushers and needs to be moved back to oG" or "Leon Hall is too slow to play CB" or "Domata Peko plays on roller skates."