(05-06-2020, 10:19 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: 4. Tee Higgins replaces John Ross
Replacing an injury prone, ball dropping speedster with relatively limited uses (Read: "Go deep!") with a 6'4" 216 lb behemoth who catches almost everything you throw in his general direction who played in a pro style offense in college is going to be a really nice addition to this offense. Maybe Ross can stay healthy and can offer some explosion here and there, but as far as I'm concerned, he's a bench player at this point, which is great for our offense.

(05-06-2020, 10:19 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't know about you guys, but I am still kind of reeling from the complete make over that this coaching staff and front office has done to our starting line up in the last 4 months.

Just look at the number of different starters compared to last year:

Offense:
1. LT Jonah Williams replaces Cordy Glenn/Andre Smith/John Jerry.
True that this isn't a new aquisition but it is still an upgrade and replacement from last year's depth chart.

2. Xavier Sua-Filo replaces John Miller
Replacing an average guard with an average guard may not be the sexiest replacement, but XSF apparently fits our scheme better and has flashed great potential at times. I'm optimistic about this change.

3. Fred Johnson (hopefully) replaces Bobby Hart
I know, I know. Bobby Hart wasn't AS BAD as the perception last year. But still, the possibility of Johnson replacing and upgrading him is a tantalizing thought, given what Johnson showed in the final 2 weeks of the season.

4. Tee Higgins replaces John Ross
Replacing an injury prone, ball dropping speedster with relatively limited uses (Read: "Go deep!") with a 6'4" 216 lb behemoth who catches almost everything you throw in his general direction who played in a pro style offense in college is going to be a really nice addition to this offense. Maybe Ross can stay healthy and can offer some explosion here and there, but as far as I'm concerned, he's a bench player at this point, which is great for our offense.

5. C.J. Uzomah replaced Tyler Eifert
Maybe the only downgrade on offense this off season, as Eifert was a really good player who just couldn't stay on the field until last year. Uzomah isn't a new player, obviously, but he did show some receiving talent towards the end of last year and I think he'll continue to grow with a QB who really likes his big TE target, in Joe Burrow.

6. Joe Burrow replaces Andy Dalton
And here is the biggest and possibly most impactful replacement for our offense. If Burrow lives up to even half of the hype surrounding him, he'll be a pro bowl talent for years to come. His ability to find the open receiver and process the entire field so quickly is nothing short of extraordinary. With the number of weapons available to him, he should be a very good rookie QB.

Defense:

7. D.J. Reader replaces Andrew Billings
Let's start off with the highest price tag replacement. Billings showed promise in his time here, but he suffered several injuries and never fulfilled the massive potential he had in his massive frame. Reader is, for lack of a better comparison, what Billings could have been. A large, space eating NT who occupies multiple blockers each snap and occasionally gets to the QB just out of sheer strength and power.

8. Logan Wilson (or Josh Bynes) replaces Nick Vigil
He's just a rookie, but Wilson should be a day 1 starter, unless the coaches decide to give the early snaps to Josh Bynes. Even if they choose the latter, Wilson should be the starter by the end of the season. His coverage ability and his toughness in tackling is an immediate upgrade over Vigil and a MASSIVE upgrade over whatever the hell Brown was doing out there before we cut him.

9. Akeem Davis-Gaither replaces Preston Brown
Granted, Preston Brown was cut and his position was mostly taken by Pratt, but he did play on passing downs for some reason before he was cut. Those snaps will now go to Wilson and ADG. Add Markus Bailey as a back up and it's truly amazing how much better this LB core got over the off season.

10. Trae Waynes replaces Dre Kirkpatrick
This one is kind of...iffy. I think it may be more of a lateral move overall, but Waynes is a significantly better tackler than Dre and he may be a better scheme fit for us than he was in Minnesota, since we apparently run man coverage more often than them. I know the contract is a big issue as well, but we have the cap space to overspend right now, as our QB will be on a rookie deal for the next 4 seasons.

11. Mackensie Alexander replaces B.W. Webb/Darqueze Dennard
While slot corner is technically not a starting position, it may as well be in today's NFL. And Alexander is a significant upgrade over Webb. Dennard and Alexander may be similarly skilled as slot corners, but Dennard is still looking for a job while Vikings fans seem to be upset that Alexander left, so I'll count that as a win.

12. Vonn Bell replaces Shawn Williams
And, finally, Bell replacing Williams appears to be an upgrade in terms of tackling, run defense and maybe even coverage ability. A great find later in the free agency period that will allow Williams to play in reserve, which is probably the better case for everyone involved.

So, among 22 (23 if you count both LB3 and Slot Corner) starters on offense and defense, we replaced TWELVE of them. In one off season! And not just changes for the sake of changes, but actual upgrades in most cases (a few possibly lateral moves with Uzomah over Eifert being the only arguable downgrade)!

And this doesn't even account for A.J. Green coming back onto the team. So that would make 13 different starters compared to last season!

I don't know about you guys, but that feels pretty unprecedented to me.

Have we ever had such a large roster turnover in one season?

(05-06-2020, 10:31 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: While I agree with all your overall points, including the addition of Higgins (and YES, this roster turnover is unprecedented), but Ross doesn't have relatively limited uses.  They choose to have him run a lot of verticals to draw safety coverage deep and open up the middle of the field.  I have no idea why they don't use him more on end-arounds, screens, slants, etc.  He STILL scores a TD roughly every 5 times he touches the ball.  He did that in college and he has done that in the NFL.   He did all kinds of things in college.  He was not a "limited" player then and he isn't now. 
With that kind of home run potential, I would be scheming ways to get the ball in his hands.  If a DB plays off him (which is what I saw a lot of the time), throw him a quick screen and if he makes that one guy miss, it could be off to the races.  
This is the year.  No excuses about tanking, roster evaluation, offensive line, no running game, etc.  With Green, Ross, and Mixon all on the field at the same time and all three in essential contract years, this offense is due to explode and I think Ross will be a big part of that.  

(05-06-2020, 10:43 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I've seen Ross make some catches in the end zone in extremely tight windows and get blown up, and am amazed he hung onto the ball. I've also seen him drop some incredibly easy catches that I could have caught. I think his problem all comes down to concentration and he's too worried about running with the ball before he catches it.

(05-06-2020, 11:34 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It's gonna be a giant change by any measure and has been needed for quite some time. Add in whatever the preseason ends up being or not being and it's easy to see a slow start coming. The question is how fast they can gel ?

(05-06-2020, 11:40 AM)bengals1969 Wrote: Quite some time?  I would like to know when the coaches knew they had to wholesale replace the defense.  2019 Training camp or during the season?
Maybe Zac knew it when he interviewed for the job and explained to the Brown's his plans to replace specific guys?

(05-06-2020, 11:02 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: There is no doubt that Ross's problems (aside from health) seem to be above the shoulders.  Let's hope they get him involved early (like the Seattle game?) and he stays healthy all season.  I have said it numerous times that if Green, Ross, and Burrow are healthy all season, the Bengals will make the playoffs.  

(05-06-2020, 11:56 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I've often wondered if Ross and Dalton ever truly got on the same page ? I'm very interested to see if Burrow and Ross can get any chemistry going ?

(05-06-2020, 12:12 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: At the risk of accusations for being delusional and living in imagination land, I'm going to post this anyways.

I don't think Dalton had the personality to mesh with a lot of the younger players. He is family-focused God-fearing good guy who would probably rather play scrabble with the family on Friday than go out with 'the boys'. I don't fully believe guys like Ross work well with that. Burrow seems more like the type to foster a strong relationship with 'the boys'.

Again, just my opinion, not a fact, please don't jump down my throat viewer of this post.

(05-06-2020, 10:19 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't know about you guys, but I am still kind of reeling from the complete make over that this coaching staff and front office has done to our starting line up in the last 4 months.

Just look at the number of different starters compared to last year:

Offense:
1. LT Jonah Williams replaces Cordy Glenn/Andre Smith/John Jerry.
True that this isn't a new aquisition but it is still an upgrade and replacement from last year's depth chart.

2. Xavier Sua-Filo replaces John Miller
Replacing an average guard with an average guard may not be the sexiest replacement, but XSF apparently fits our scheme better and has flashed great potential at times. I'm optimistic about this change.

3. Fred Johnson (hopefully) replaces Bobby Hart
I know, I know. Bobby Hart wasn't AS BAD as the perception last year. But still, the possibility of Johnson replacing and upgrading him is a tantalizing thought, given what Johnson showed in the final 2 weeks of the season.

4. Tee Higgins replaces John Ross
Replacing an injury prone, ball dropping speedster with relatively limited uses (Read: "Go deep!") with a 6'4" 216 lb behemoth who catches almost everything you throw in his general direction who played in a pro style offense in college is going to be a really nice addition to this offense. Maybe Ross can stay healthy and can offer some explosion here and there, but as far as I'm concerned, he's a bench player at this point, which is great for our offense.

5. C.J. Uzomah replaced Tyler Eifert
Maybe the only downgrade on offense this off season, as Eifert was a really good player who just couldn't stay on the field until last year. Uzomah isn't a new player, obviously, but he did show some receiving talent towards the end of last year and I think he'll continue to grow with a QB who really likes his big TE target, in Joe Burrow.

6. Joe Burrow replaces Andy Dalton
And here is the biggest and possibly most impactful replacement for our offense. If Burrow lives up to even half of the hype surrounding him, he'll be a pro bowl talent for years to come. His ability to find the open receiver and process the entire field so quickly is nothing short of extraordinary. With the number of weapons available to him, he should be a very good rookie QB.

Defense:

7. D.J. Reader replaces Andrew Billings
Let's start off with the highest price tag replacement. Billings showed promise in his time here, but he suffered several injuries and never fulfilled the massive potential he had in his massive frame. Reader is, for lack of a better comparison, what Billings could have been. A large, space eating NT who occupies multiple blockers each snap and occasionally gets to the QB just out of sheer strength and power.

8. Logan Wilson (or Josh Bynes) replaces Nick Vigil
He's just a rookie, but Wilson should be a day 1 starter, unless the coaches decide to give the early snaps to Josh Bynes. Even if they choose the latter, Wilson should be the starter by the end of the season. His coverage ability and his toughness in tackling is an immediate upgrade over Vigil and a MASSIVE upgrade over whatever the hell Brown was doing out there before we cut him.

9. Akeem Davis-Gaither replaces Preston Brown
Granted, Preston Brown was cut and his position was mostly taken by Pratt, but he did play on passing downs for some reason before he was cut. Those snaps will now go to Wilson and ADG. Add Markus Bailey as a back up and it's truly amazing how much better this LB core got over the off season.

10. Trae Waynes replaces Dre Kirkpatrick
This one is kind of...iffy. I think it may be more of a lateral move overall, but Waynes is a significantly better tackler than Dre and he may be a better scheme fit for us than he was in Minnesota, since we apparently run man coverage more often than them. I know the contract is a big issue as well, but we have the cap space to overspend right now, as our QB will be on a rookie deal for the next 4 seasons.

11. Mackensie Alexander replaces B.W. Webb/Darqueze Dennard
While slot corner is technically not a starting position, it may as well be in today's NFL. And Alexander is a significant upgrade over Webb. Dennard and Alexander may be similarly skilled as slot corners, but Dennard is still looking for a job while Vikings fans seem to be upset that Alexander left, so I'll count that as a win.

12. Vonn Bell replaces Shawn Williams
And, finally, Bell replacing Williams appears to be an upgrade in terms of tackling, run defense and maybe even coverage ability. A great find later in the free agency period that will allow Williams to play in reserve, which is probably the better case for everyone involved.

So, among 22 (23 if you count both LB3 and Slot Corner) starters on offense and defense, we replaced TWELVE of them. In one off season! And not just changes for the sake of changes, but actual upgrades in most cases (a few possibly lateral moves with Uzomah over Eifert being the only arguable downgrade)!

And this doesn't even account for A.J. Green coming back onto the team. So that would make 13 different starters compared to last season!

I don't know about you guys, but that feels pretty unprecedented to me.

Have we ever had such a large roster turnover in one season?

(05-06-2020, 01:26 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: I'm not 'jumping down your throat,' but this is a discussion board, and so I'm going to discuss why I disagree with you. 

Locker rooms are full of guys with vastly different backgrounds. What unites them is they want to play well and win. They don't have to have to be the same person off the field to complete passes. Whitworth and Ochocinco probably have nothing in common either but I've seen them praise each other as teammates. 

Not to mention, you're making a lot of assumptions about what Ross values off the field, and on both Ross and Dalton's abililty to get along with people different than them. 

(05-06-2020, 11:56 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I've often wondered if Ross and Dalton ever truly got on the same page ? I'm very interested to see if Burrow and Ross can get any chemistry going ?

(05-06-2020, 01:39 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I agree with you, there are vastly different personalities in a locker room. However, I don't think the relationship between Whitworth and Ocho was too important to the teams success. Their roles were independent of each other

IMO, the QBs relationships with his receivers and line are highly important. Some guys are really good at meshing with all personalities, some not so much. Don't get me wrong, Dalton is clearly a leader and has shown the ability to lead a group of men to success in the past.. I just think as he got older his ability to do that has gotten weaker. It's not him, it's more of the next generation and what they value and how they act. Unless there is a side of Dalton we don't see, I just can't see him having that personality that fits the young 20-24 year olds. 

Again just my opinion, maybe they like playing ladder ball with Dalton at his house.... but maybe they don't....

(05-06-2020, 10:19 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't know about you guys, but I am still kind of reeling from the complete make over that this coaching staff and front office has done to our starting line up in the last 4 months.

Just look at the number of different starters compared to last year:

Offense:
1. LT Jonah Williams replaces Cordy Glenn/Andre Smith/John Jerry.
True that this isn't a new aquisition but it is still an upgrade and replacement from last year's depth chart.

2. Xavier Sua-Filo replaces John Miller
Replacing an average guard with an average guard may not be the sexiest replacement, but XSF apparently fits our scheme better and has flashed great potential at times. I'm optimistic about this change.

3. Fred Johnson (hopefully) replaces Bobby Hart
I know, I know. Bobby Hart wasn't AS BAD as the perception last year. But still, the possibility of Johnson replacing and upgrading him is a tantalizing thought, given what Johnson showed in the final 2 weeks of the season.

4. Tee Higgins replaces John Ross
Replacing an injury prone, ball dropping speedster with relatively limited uses (Read: "Go deep!") with a 6'4" 216 lb behemoth who catches almost everything you throw in his general direction who played in a pro style offense in college is going to be a really nice addition to this offense. Maybe Ross can stay healthy and can offer some explosion here and there, but as far as I'm concerned, he's a bench player at this point, which is great for our offense.

5. C.J. Uzomah replaced Tyler Eifert
Maybe the only downgrade on offense this off season, as Eifert was a really good player who just couldn't stay on the field until last year. Uzomah isn't a new player, obviously, but he did show some receiving talent towards the end of last year and I think he'll continue to grow with a QB who really likes his big TE target, in Joe Burrow.

6. Joe Burrow replaces Andy Dalton
And here is the biggest and possibly most impactful replacement for our offense. If Burrow lives up to even half of the hype surrounding him, he'll be a pro bowl talent for years to come. His ability to find the open receiver and process the entire field so quickly is nothing short of extraordinary. With the number of weapons available to him, he should be a very good rookie QB.

Defense:

7. D.J. Reader replaces Andrew Billings
Let's start off with the highest price tag replacement. Billings showed promise in his time here, but he suffered several injuries and never fulfilled the massive potential he had in his massive frame. Reader is, for lack of a better comparison, what Billings could have been. A large, space eating NT who occupies multiple blockers each snap and occasionally gets to the QB just out of sheer strength and power.

8. Logan Wilson (or Josh Bynes) replaces Nick Vigil
He's just a rookie, but Wilson should be a day 1 starter, unless the coaches decide to give the early snaps to Josh Bynes. Even if they choose the latter, Wilson should be the starter by the end of the season. His coverage ability and his toughness in tackling is an immediate upgrade over Vigil and a MASSIVE upgrade over whatever the hell Brown was doing out there before we cut him.

9. Akeem Davis-Gaither replaces Preston Brown
Granted, Preston Brown was cut and his position was mostly taken by Pratt, but he did play on passing downs for some reason before he was cut. Those snaps will now go to Wilson and ADG. Add Markus Bailey as a back up and it's truly amazing how much better this LB core got over the off season.

10. Trae Waynes replaces Dre Kirkpatrick
This one is kind of...iffy. I think it may be more of a lateral move overall, but Waynes is a significantly better tackler than Dre and he may be a better scheme fit for us than he was in Minnesota, since we apparently run man coverage more often than them. I know the contract is a big issue as well, but we have the cap space to overspend right now, as our QB will be on a rookie deal for the next 4 seasons.

11. Mackensie Alexander replaces B.W. Webb/Darqueze Dennard
While slot corner is technically not a starting position, it may as well be in today's NFL. And Alexander is a significant upgrade over Webb. Dennard and Alexander may be similarly skilled as slot corners, but Dennard is still looking for a job while Vikings fans seem to be upset that Alexander left, so I'll count that as a win.

12. Vonn Bell replaces Shawn Williams
And, finally, Bell replacing Williams appears to be an upgrade in terms of tackling, run defense and maybe even coverage ability. A great find later in the free agency period that will allow Williams to play in reserve, which is probably the better case for everyone involved.

So, among 22 (23 if you count both LB3 and Slot Corner) starters on offense and defense, we replaced TWELVE of them. In one off season! And not just changes for the sake of changes, but actual upgrades in most cases (a few possibly lateral moves with Uzomah over Eifert being the only arguable downgrade)!

And this doesn't even account for A.J. Green coming back onto the team. So that would make 13 different starters compared to last season!

I don't know about you guys, but that feels pretty unprecedented to me.

Have we ever had such a large roster turnover in one season?

(05-06-2020, 01:25 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: All this turnover is why my expectations for this year are a little tempered.  When's the last time a team has bought in that many guys and had immediate results.

(05-06-2020, 03:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think you left a pretty good WR off your list and I wouldn't rule out the Olineman from KU beating out someone on the Right Side.