The amount of change to our starting line up

[CJD]

I don't know about you guys, but I am still kind of reeling from the complete make over that this coaching staff and front office has done to our starting line up in the last 4 months.

Just look at the number of different starters compared to last year:

Offense:
1. LT Jonah Williams replaces Cordy Glenn/Andre Smith/John Jerry.
True that this isn't a new aquisition but it is still an upgrade and replacement from last year's depth chart.

2. Xavier Sua-Filo replaces John Miller
Replacing an average guard with an average guard may not be the sexiest replacement, but XSF apparently fits our scheme better and has flashed great potential at times. I'm optimistic about this change.

3. Fred Johnson (hopefully) replaces Bobby Hart
I know, I know. Bobby Hart wasn't AS BAD as the perception last year. But still, the possibility of Johnson replacing and upgrading him is a tantalizing thought, given what Johnson showed in the final 2 weeks of the season.

4. Tee Higgins replaces John Ross
Replacing an injury prone, ball dropping speedster with relatively limited uses (Read: "Go deep!") with a 6'4" 216 lb behemoth who catches almost everything you throw in his general direction who played in a pro style offense in college is going to be a really nice addition to this offense. Maybe Ross can stay healthy and can offer some explosion here and there, but as far as I'm concerned, he's a bench player at this point, which is great for our offense.

5. C.J. Uzomah replaced Tyler Eifert
Maybe the only downgrade on offense this off season, as Eifert was a really good player who just couldn't stay on the field until last year. Uzomah isn't a new player, obviously, but he did show some receiving talent towards the end of last year and I think he'll continue to grow with a QB who really likes his big TE target, in Joe Burrow.

6. Joe Burrow replaces Andy Dalton
And here is the biggest and possibly most impactful replacement for our offense. If Burrow lives up to even half of the hype surrounding him, he'll be a pro bowl talent for years to come. His ability to find the open receiver and process the entire field so quickly is nothing short of extraordinary. With the number of weapons available to him, he should be a very good rookie QB.

Defense:

7. D.J. Reader replaces Andrew Billings
Let's start off with the highest price tag replacement. Billings showed promise in his time here, but he suffered several injuries and never fulfilled the massive potential he had in his massive frame. Reader is, for lack of a better comparison, what Billings could have been. A large, space eating NT who occupies multiple blockers each snap and occasionally gets to the QB just out of sheer strength and power.

8. Logan Wilson (or Josh Bynes) replaces Nick Vigil
He's just a rookie, but Wilson should be a day 1 starter, unless the coaches decide to give the early snaps to Josh Bynes. Even if they choose the latter, Wilson should be the starter by the end of the season. His coverage ability and his toughness in tackling is an immediate upgrade over Vigil and a MASSIVE upgrade over whatever the hell Brown was doing out there before we cut him.

9. Akeem Davis-Gaither replaces Preston Brown
Granted, Preston Brown was cut and his position was mostly taken by Pratt, but he did play on passing downs for some reason before he was cut. Those snaps will now go to Wilson and ADG. Add Markus Bailey as a back up and it's truly amazing how much better this LB core got over the off season.

10. Trae Waynes replaces Dre Kirkpatrick
This one is kind of...iffy. I think it may be more of a lateral move overall, but Waynes is a significantly better tackler than Dre and he may be a better scheme fit for us than he was in Minnesota, since we apparently run man coverage more often than them. I know the contract is a big issue as well, but we have the cap space to overspend right now, as our QB will be on a rookie deal for the next 4 seasons.

11. Mackensie Alexander replaces B.W. Webb/Darqueze Dennard
While slot corner is technically not a starting position, it may as well be in today's NFL. And Alexander is a significant upgrade over Webb. Dennard and Alexander may be similarly skilled as slot corners, but Dennard is still looking for a job while Vikings fans seem to be upset that Alexander left, so I'll count that as a win.

12. Vonn Bell replaces Shawn Williams
And, finally, Bell replacing Williams appears to be an upgrade in terms of tackling, run defense and maybe even coverage ability. A great find later in the free agency period that will allow Williams to play in reserve, which is probably the better case for everyone involved.

So, among 22 (23 if you count both LB3 and Slot Corner) starters on offense and defense, we replaced TWELVE of them. In one off season! And not just changes for the sake of changes, but actual upgrades in most cases (a few possibly lateral moves with Uzomah over Eifert being the only arguable downgrade)!

And this doesn't even account for A.J. Green coming back onto the team. So that would make 13 different starters compared to last season!

I don't know about you guys, but that feels pretty unprecedented to me.

Have we ever had such a large roster turnover in one season?

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-06-2020, 10:19 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: 4. Tee Higgins replaces John Ross
Replacing an injury prone, ball dropping speedster with relatively limited uses (Read: "Go deep!") with a 6'4" 216 lb behemoth who catches almost everything you throw in his general direction who played in a pro style offense in college is going to be a really nice addition to this offense. Maybe Ross can stay healthy and can offer some explosion here and there, but as far as I'm concerned, he's a bench player at this point, which is great for our offense.

While I agree with all your overall points, including the addition of Higgins (and YES, this roster turnover is unprecedented), but Ross doesn't have relatively limited uses.  They choose to have him run a lot of verticals to draw safety coverage deep and open up the middle of the field.  I have no idea why they don't use him more on end-arounds, screens, slants, etc.  He STILL scores a TD roughly every 5 times he touches the ball.  He did that in college and he has done that in the NFL.   He did all kinds of things in college.  He was not a "limited" player then and he isn't now. 
With that kind of home run potential, I would be scheming ways to get the ball in his hands.  If a DB plays off him (which is what I saw a lot of the time), throw him a quick screen and if he makes that one guy miss, it could be off to the races.  
This is the year.  No excuses about tanking, roster evaluation, offensive line, no running game, etc.  With Green, Ross, and Mixon all on the field at the same time and all three in essential contract years, this offense is due to explode and I think Ross will be a big part of that.  

[sonofstat]

(05-06-2020, 10:19 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't know about you guys, but I am still kind of reeling from the complete make over that this coaching staff and front office has done to our starting line up in the last 4 months.

Just look at the number of different starters compared to last year:

Offense:
1. LT Jonah Williams replaces Cordy Glenn/Andre Smith/John Jerry.
True that this isn't a new aquisition but it is still an upgrade and replacement from last year's depth chart.

2. Xavier Sua-Filo replaces John Miller
Replacing an average guard with an average guard may not be the sexiest replacement, but XSF apparently fits our scheme better and has flashed great potential at times. I'm optimistic about this change.

3. Fred Johnson (hopefully) replaces Bobby Hart
I know, I know. Bobby Hart wasn't AS BAD as the perception last year. But still, the possibility of Johnson replacing and upgrading him is a tantalizing thought, given what Johnson showed in the final 2 weeks of the season.

4. Tee Higgins replaces John Ross
Replacing an injury prone, ball dropping speedster with relatively limited uses (Read: "Go deep!") with a 6'4" 216 lb behemoth who catches almost everything you throw in his general direction who played in a pro style offense in college is going to be a really nice addition to this offense. Maybe Ross can stay healthy and can offer some explosion here and there, but as far as I'm concerned, he's a bench player at this point, which is great for our offense.

5. C.J. Uzomah replaced Tyler Eifert
Maybe the only downgrade on offense this off season, as Eifert was a really good player who just couldn't stay on the field until last year. Uzomah isn't a new player, obviously, but he did show some receiving talent towards the end of last year and I think he'll continue to grow with a QB who really likes his big TE target, in Joe Burrow.

6. Joe Burrow replaces Andy Dalton
And here is the biggest and possibly most impactful replacement for our offense. If Burrow lives up to even half of the hype surrounding him, he'll be a pro bowl talent for years to come. His ability to find the open receiver and process the entire field so quickly is nothing short of extraordinary. With the number of weapons available to him, he should be a very good rookie QB.

Defense:

7. D.J. Reader replaces Andrew Billings
Let's start off with the highest price tag replacement. Billings showed promise in his time here, but he suffered several injuries and never fulfilled the massive potential he had in his massive frame. Reader is, for lack of a better comparison, what Billings could have been. A large, space eating NT who occupies multiple blockers each snap and occasionally gets to the QB just out of sheer strength and power.

8. Logan Wilson (or Josh Bynes) replaces Nick Vigil
He's just a rookie, but Wilson should be a day 1 starter, unless the coaches decide to give the early snaps to Josh Bynes. Even if they choose the latter, Wilson should be the starter by the end of the season. His coverage ability and his toughness in tackling is an immediate upgrade over Vigil and a MASSIVE upgrade over whatever the hell Brown was doing out there before we cut him.

9. Akeem Davis-Gaither replaces Preston Brown
Granted, Preston Brown was cut and his position was mostly taken by Pratt, but he did play on passing downs for some reason before he was cut. Those snaps will now go to Wilson and ADG. Add Markus Bailey as a back up and it's truly amazing how much better this LB core got over the off season.

10. Trae Waynes replaces Dre Kirkpatrick
This one is kind of...iffy. I think it may be more of a lateral move overall, but Waynes is a significantly better tackler than Dre and he may be a better scheme fit for us than he was in Minnesota, since we apparently run man coverage more often than them. I know the contract is a big issue as well, but we have the cap space to overspend right now, as our QB will be on a rookie deal for the next 4 seasons.

11. Mackensie Alexander replaces B.W. Webb/Darqueze Dennard
While slot corner is technically not a starting position, it may as well be in today's NFL. And Alexander is a significant upgrade over Webb. Dennard and Alexander may be similarly skilled as slot corners, but Dennard is still looking for a job while Vikings fans seem to be upset that Alexander left, so I'll count that as a win.

12. Vonn Bell replaces Shawn Williams
And, finally, Bell replacing Williams appears to be an upgrade in terms of tackling, run defense and maybe even coverage ability. A great find later in the free agency period that will allow Williams to play in reserve, which is probably the better case for everyone involved.

So, among 22 (23 if you count both LB3 and Slot Corner) starters on offense and defense, we replaced TWELVE of them. In one off season! And not just changes for the sake of changes, but actual upgrades in most cases (a few possibly lateral moves with Uzomah over Eifert being the only arguable downgrade)!

And this doesn't even account for A.J. Green coming back onto the team. So that would make 13 different starters compared to last season!

I don't know about you guys, but that feels pretty unprecedented to me.

Have we ever had such a large roster turnover in one season?

Yeah it is a hell of a lot of turnover and probably not ideal with this off season to date....but the reality is they have been a losing squad for a while now and we were the worst team by record last year - so incremental 'culture' changes were not going to be enough this time around.

Time will tell what is just roster churn .vs. genuine upgrades.

Jonah, Reader you have to assume are genuine improvements and will make a material difference.

The likes of Waynes and Wilson we will have to see I guess.

At least we have been proactive this off season and the club should be applauded for that  :andy:

[Sled21]

(05-06-2020, 10:31 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: While I agree with all your overall points, including the addition of Higgins (and YES, this roster turnover is unprecedented), but Ross doesn't have relatively limited uses.  They choose to have him run a lot of verticals to draw safety coverage deep and open up the middle of the field.  I have no idea why they don't use him more on end-arounds, screens, slants, etc.  He STILL scores a TD roughly every 5 times he touches the ball.  He did that in college and he has done that in the NFL.   He did all kinds of things in college.  He was not a "limited" player then and he isn't now. 
With that kind of home run potential, I would be scheming ways to get the ball in his hands.  If a DB plays off him (which is what I saw a lot of the time), throw him a quick screen and if he makes that one guy miss, it could be off to the races.  
This is the year.  No excuses about tanking, roster evaluation, offensive line, no running game, etc.  With Green, Ross, and Mixon all on the field at the same time and all three in essential contract years, this offense is due to explode and I think Ross will be a big part of that.  

I've seen Ross make some catches in the end zone in extremely tight windows and get blown up, and am amazed he hung onto the ball. I've also seen him drop some incredibly easy catches that I could have caught. I think his problem all comes down to concentration and he's too worried about running with the ball before he catches it.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-06-2020, 10:43 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I've seen Ross make some catches in the end zone in extremely tight windows and get blown up, and am amazed he hung onto the ball. I've also seen him drop some incredibly easy catches that I could have caught. I think his problem all comes down to concentration and he's too worried about running with the ball before he catches it.

There is no doubt that Ross's problems (aside from health) seem to be above the shoulders.  Let's hope they get him involved early (like the Seattle game?) and he stays healthy all season.  I have said it numerous times that if Green, Ross, and Burrow are healthy all season, the Bengals will make the playoffs.  

[*bengalfan74*]

It's gonna be a giant change by any measure and has been needed for quite some time. Add in whatever the preseason ends up being or not being and it's easy to see a slow start coming. The question is how fast they can gel ?

[bengals1969]

(05-06-2020, 11:34 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It's gonna be a giant change by any measure and has been needed for quite some time. Add in whatever the preseason ends up being or not being and it's easy to see a slow start coming. The question is how fast they can gel ?

Quite some time?  I would like to know when the coaches knew they had to wholesale replace the defense.  2019 Training camp or during the season?
Maybe Zac knew it when he interviewed for the job and explained to the Brown's his plans to replace specific guys?

[GreenCornBengal]

You don't go 2-14 and expect heads not to roll. Change was needed. I feel good about the direction of the change thus far, but it will be interesting to see how all of these guys look on the field together. Thinking next off-season will have a major focus on O-line help.

Good or bad, I'm excited to see some new guys out there... anything is better than B.W. Webb

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-06-2020, 11:40 AM)bengals1969 Wrote: Quite some time?  I would like to know when the coaches knew they had to wholesale replace the defense.  2019 Training camp or during the season?
Maybe Zac knew it when he interviewed for the job and explained to the Brown's his plans to replace specific guys?

I'd venture to say ZT knew going on many changes were needed. Whether or not he knew just how much change was needed and when he knew it ?? I'd say at a minimum when we got pummeled by the 49ers he knew. Or at least he should have.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-06-2020, 11:02 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: There is no doubt that Ross's problems (aside from health) seem to be above the shoulders.  Let's hope they get him involved early (like the Seattle game?) and he stays healthy all season.  I have said it numerous times that if Green, Ross, and Burrow are healthy all season, the Bengals will make the playoffs.  

I've often wondered if Ross and Dalton ever truly got on the same page ? I'm very interested to see if Burrow and Ross can get any chemistry going ?

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-06-2020, 11:56 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I've often wondered if Ross and Dalton ever truly got on the same page ? I'm very interested to see if Burrow and Ross can get any chemistry going ?

At the risk of accusations for being delusional and living in imagination land, I'm going to post this anyways.

I don't think Dalton had the personality to mesh with a lot of the younger players. He is family-focused God-fearing good guy who would probably rather play scrabble with the family on Friday than go out with 'the boys'. I don't fully believe guys like Ross work well with that. Burrow seems more like the type to foster a strong relationship with 'the boys'.

Again, just my opinion, not a fact, please don't jump down my throat viewer of this post.

[Hammerstripes]

All this turnover is why my expectations for this year are a little tempered. When's the last time a team has bought in that many guys and had immediate results.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(05-06-2020, 12:12 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: At the risk of accusations for being delusional and living in imagination land, I'm going to post this anyways.

I don't think Dalton had the personality to mesh with a lot of the younger players. He is family-focused God-fearing good guy who would probably rather play scrabble with the family on Friday than go out with 'the boys'. I don't fully believe guys like Ross work well with that. Burrow seems more like the type to foster a strong relationship with 'the boys'.

Again, just my opinion, not a fact, please don't jump down my throat viewer of this post.

I'm not 'jumping down your throat,' but this is a discussion board, and so I'm going to discuss why I disagree with you. 

Locker rooms are full of guys with vastly different backgrounds. What unites them is they want to play well and win. They don't have to have to be the same person off the field to complete passes. Whitworth and Ochocinco probably have nothing in common either but I've seen them praise each other as teammates. 

Not to mention, you're making a lot of assumptions about what Ross values off the field, and on both Ross and Dalton's abililty to get along with people different than them. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(05-06-2020, 10:19 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't know about you guys, but I am still kind of reeling from the complete make over that this coaching staff and front office has done to our starting line up in the last 4 months.

Just look at the number of different starters compared to last year:

Offense:
1. LT Jonah Williams replaces Cordy Glenn/Andre Smith/John Jerry.
True that this isn't a new aquisition but it is still an upgrade and replacement from last year's depth chart.

2. Xavier Sua-Filo replaces John Miller
Replacing an average guard with an average guard may not be the sexiest replacement, but XSF apparently fits our scheme better and has flashed great potential at times. I'm optimistic about this change.

3. Fred Johnson (hopefully) replaces Bobby Hart
I know, I know. Bobby Hart wasn't AS BAD as the perception last year. But still, the possibility of Johnson replacing and upgrading him is a tantalizing thought, given what Johnson showed in the final 2 weeks of the season.

4. Tee Higgins replaces John Ross
Replacing an injury prone, ball dropping speedster with relatively limited uses (Read: "Go deep!") with a 6'4" 216 lb behemoth who catches almost everything you throw in his general direction who played in a pro style offense in college is going to be a really nice addition to this offense. Maybe Ross can stay healthy and can offer some explosion here and there, but as far as I'm concerned, he's a bench player at this point, which is great for our offense.

5. C.J. Uzomah replaced Tyler Eifert
Maybe the only downgrade on offense this off season, as Eifert was a really good player who just couldn't stay on the field until last year. Uzomah isn't a new player, obviously, but he did show some receiving talent towards the end of last year and I think he'll continue to grow with a QB who really likes his big TE target, in Joe Burrow.

6. Joe Burrow replaces Andy Dalton
And here is the biggest and possibly most impactful replacement for our offense. If Burrow lives up to even half of the hype surrounding him, he'll be a pro bowl talent for years to come. His ability to find the open receiver and process the entire field so quickly is nothing short of extraordinary. With the number of weapons available to him, he should be a very good rookie QB.

Defense:

7. D.J. Reader replaces Andrew Billings
Let's start off with the highest price tag replacement. Billings showed promise in his time here, but he suffered several injuries and never fulfilled the massive potential he had in his massive frame. Reader is, for lack of a better comparison, what Billings could have been. A large, space eating NT who occupies multiple blockers each snap and occasionally gets to the QB just out of sheer strength and power.

8. Logan Wilson (or Josh Bynes) replaces Nick Vigil
He's just a rookie, but Wilson should be a day 1 starter, unless the coaches decide to give the early snaps to Josh Bynes. Even if they choose the latter, Wilson should be the starter by the end of the season. His coverage ability and his toughness in tackling is an immediate upgrade over Vigil and a MASSIVE upgrade over whatever the hell Brown was doing out there before we cut him.

9. Akeem Davis-Gaither replaces Preston Brown
Granted, Preston Brown was cut and his position was mostly taken by Pratt, but he did play on passing downs for some reason before he was cut. Those snaps will now go to Wilson and ADG. Add Markus Bailey as a back up and it's truly amazing how much better this LB core got over the off season.

10. Trae Waynes replaces Dre Kirkpatrick
This one is kind of...iffy. I think it may be more of a lateral move overall, but Waynes is a significantly better tackler than Dre and he may be a better scheme fit for us than he was in Minnesota, since we apparently run man coverage more often than them. I know the contract is a big issue as well, but we have the cap space to overspend right now, as our QB will be on a rookie deal for the next 4 seasons.

11. Mackensie Alexander replaces B.W. Webb/Darqueze Dennard
While slot corner is technically not a starting position, it may as well be in today's NFL. And Alexander is a significant upgrade over Webb. Dennard and Alexander may be similarly skilled as slot corners, but Dennard is still looking for a job while Vikings fans seem to be upset that Alexander left, so I'll count that as a win.

12. Vonn Bell replaces Shawn Williams
And, finally, Bell replacing Williams appears to be an upgrade in terms of tackling, run defense and maybe even coverage ability. A great find later in the free agency period that will allow Williams to play in reserve, which is probably the better case for everyone involved.

So, among 22 (23 if you count both LB3 and Slot Corner) starters on offense and defense, we replaced TWELVE of them. In one off season! And not just changes for the sake of changes, but actual upgrades in most cases (a few possibly lateral moves with Uzomah over Eifert being the only arguable downgrade)!

And this doesn't even account for A.J. Green coming back onto the team. So that would make 13 different starters compared to last season!

I don't know about you guys, but that feels pretty unprecedented to me.

Have we ever had such a large roster turnover in one season?

Good post. I agree with your overall point that we have a lot of turnover, though how much is still up in the air, but I have a quibble with the list in a couple spots: Uzomah was the starter last year, not Eifert, for instance. And I'd bet on Bynes starting, not Wilson. And as you admit, you kind of buried the lede with AJ returning.

And I am not sure how big an upgrade some spits will be, as you noted.

If I had to rank them, and guess the "starters", or at least who plays in the packages we use most often, I'd go:

Offense: 3 WR: Burrow; Mixon; Green, Boyd (slot), Ross/Higgins; Uzomah; J. Williams, Jordan, Hopkins, Su'a-Filo, Hart/Johnson.


Three new starters for certain (Green, Burrow, J. Williams), one I think is probable (Su'a-Filo), and two that could happen (Higgins, Johnson).

1. AJ Green replaces Auden Tate.


Tate did an admirable job for a 7th rounder forced into action: 10 starts, 40 catches for 575 yards, 1 TD. But a healthy AJ Green is a HUGE upgrade. Further, with Higgins added and likely battling Ross for PT, Tate becomes a very good WR5 instead of a below average WR2.

The whole WR corps is improved. Green, Boyd, Ross, Higgins, Tate, Erickson is a nice top 6. Much better than Boyd, Tate, Ross, Erickson, Willis, & Morgan.

2. Joe Burrow replaces Andy Dalton.


This is the most exciting change, long term. But rookie quarterbacks, even great ones (Peyton Manning, Aikman, etc) rarely light it up right out of the gate. Though I think Burrow will be an upgrade vs the blitz, with his feet, and has better pocket presence, he will also be benefitting from a better WR corps, better O line play, and a defense than can get off the field. Though losing Eifert will hurt, our TE situation is WORSE than last year at the moment.

3. Jonah Williams replaces Andre Smith/John Jerry/Cordy Glenn


Like QB, rookie OTs can certainly struggle at times. Further, recent Bengal 1st round OTs (Fisher, Ogbuehi), or lineman generally (Price), haven't exactly turned into studs. But despite Williams' injury, all signs point to him being a VERY good player. This is a big upgrade.

4. Xavier Su'a-Filo replaces John Miller.


Like you, I am not sure how much of an upgrade this is. But we went and got XSF, and we say we like his nastiness and he fits our scheme. And Dallas hasbeen pretty good up front lately (Elliot). Plus, he'll likely appreciate the chance to start & be motivated.

I suppose a rejuvenated, healthy Billy Price could win this job if he starts looking like a first rounder (doubtful) or Hart moving inside if Johnson wins RT. But both of those outcomes would still be an upgrade to last year.

5. Fred Johnson possibly replaces Bobby Hart


We know there will be open competition at RT. If Johnson wins the job, and his one start last year was encouraging, then that could really be an improvement of the O line. Not only will he have beated out Hart (who did improve over the course of the year), but then Hart could challenge XSF for RG or become a pretty decent OT/OG sub.

6. Tee Higgins possibly replacing John Ross


Frankly, I am not sure this happens, or at least not right away. Ross is the only burner we have, and he creates space just by being out there. Higgins is a different type of receiver. Regardless of who starts with Green & Boyd, both guys are going to play a lot. And if Higgins can effectively play wide and slot, that means you can essentially line him up with any combination of the other WRs. I'd expect a lot of 4 WR sets. 

7. Offensive Position Evaluations


A) Wide Receiver


I think we see the biggest jump here. Getting AJ back is a legit Pro-Bowler. It also allows Boyd (with two 1,000 yard seasons) to be more of a 2nd/3rd option from the slot, rather than a #1 guy. We added Higgins. And if Ross can actually stay on the field, our top four could be frightening, with Tate/Erickson very productive 5th/6th options.

Even if Ross can't stay on the field, AJ has lost a step, and Higgins is not what we thought, it is still an upgrade on last year. Let's get AJ's extension done.

B) Quarterback.


Obvious. Possible superstar drafted. Might take a year to click. Obviously not much behind him. Cheap vet QB add would not be amiss.

C) Offensive Line


Potentially a ton of upside here. IF Williams is a stud. IF Jordan continues to improve. IF Su'a-Filo is ready to be a starter. IF Johnson is ready. IF Price plays close to where he was picked. IF Hart's improvement was real. IF Adejini can contribute this year. Lot of IFs. At least we will get answers. Still would love an investment in a known commodity (Peters) until these questions are answered. Doubt that happens, however.

D) Running Backs.


Looks to be pretty status quo. I think Mixon holding out is not likely because he will lose a year. Anderson healthy would be a boost. I think we keep 4 with Patrick on the PS. Big year for Gio. We can cut him for cheap after this year. If Williams looks good, and Gio looks average, it could happen

E) Tight Ends


The only group where we look to take a step back. We kept 4 last year, and CJ, Sample, & Carter are all back. But Eifert is not, and he was, by far, our best receiving TE. Love to sign a vet here (Walker). I can imagine a lot of 4 WR sets as a result, Tate as de facto TE.

Whew, too long. Many changes. Will do D later.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-06-2020, 01:26 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: I'm not 'jumping down your throat,' but this is a discussion board, and so I'm going to discuss why I disagree with you. 

Locker rooms are full of guys with vastly different backgrounds. What unites them is they want to play well and win. They don't have to have to be the same person off the field to complete passes. Whitworth and Ochocinco probably have nothing in common either but I've seen them praise each other as teammates. 

Not to mention, you're making a lot of assumptions about what Ross values off the field, and on both Ross and Dalton's abililty to get along with people different than them. 

I agree with you, there are vastly different personalities in a locker room. However, I don't think the relationship between Whitworth and Ocho was too important to the teams success. Their roles were independent of each other

IMO, the QBs relationships with his receivers and line are highly important. Some guys are really good at meshing with all personalities, some not so much. Don't get me wrong, Dalton is clearly a leader and has shown the ability to lead a group of men to success in the past.. I just think as he got older his ability to do that has gotten weaker. It's not him, it's more of the next generation and what they value and how they act. Unless there is a side of Dalton we don't see, I just can't see him having that personality that fits the young 20-24 year olds. 

Again just my opinion, maybe they like playing ladder ball with Dalton at his house.... but maybe they don't....

[Bengalpool]

(05-06-2020, 11:56 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I've often wondered if Ross and Dalton ever truly got on the same page ? I'm very interested to see if Burrow and Ross can get any chemistry going ?

If Burrow comes as advertised, he should make everyone around him better. I can't wait to see!

[*Nately120*]

(05-06-2020, 01:39 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I agree with you, there are vastly different personalities in a locker room. However, I don't think the relationship between Whitworth and Ocho was too important to the teams success. Their roles were independent of each other

IMO, the QBs relationships with his receivers and line are highly important. Some guys are really good at meshing with all personalities, some not so much. Don't get me wrong, Dalton is clearly a leader and has shown the ability to lead a group of men to success in the past.. I just think as he got older his ability to do that has gotten weaker. It's not him, it's more of the next generation and what they value and how they act. Unless there is a side of Dalton we don't see, I just can't see him having that personality that fits the young 20-24 year olds. 

Again just my opinion, maybe they like playing ladder ball with Dalton at his house.... but maybe they don't....

I think we are truly scraping the bottom of the barrel of Ross excuses by this point.  Hopefully Burrow's personality doesn't make Ross suck at his job, too 

[*bfine32*]

(05-06-2020, 10:19 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't know about you guys, but I am still kind of reeling from the complete make over that this coaching staff and front office has done to our starting line up in the last 4 months.

Just look at the number of different starters compared to last year:

Offense:
1. LT Jonah Williams replaces Cordy Glenn/Andre Smith/John Jerry.
True that this isn't a new aquisition but it is still an upgrade and replacement from last year's depth chart.

2. Xavier Sua-Filo replaces John Miller
Replacing an average guard with an average guard may not be the sexiest replacement, but XSF apparently fits our scheme better and has flashed great potential at times. I'm optimistic about this change.

3. Fred Johnson (hopefully) replaces Bobby Hart
I know, I know. Bobby Hart wasn't AS BAD as the perception last year. But still, the possibility of Johnson replacing and upgrading him is a tantalizing thought, given what Johnson showed in the final 2 weeks of the season.

4. Tee Higgins replaces John Ross
Replacing an injury prone, ball dropping speedster with relatively limited uses (Read: "Go deep!") with a 6'4" 216 lb behemoth who catches almost everything you throw in his general direction who played in a pro style offense in college is going to be a really nice addition to this offense. Maybe Ross can stay healthy and can offer some explosion here and there, but as far as I'm concerned, he's a bench player at this point, which is great for our offense.

5. C.J. Uzomah replaced Tyler Eifert
Maybe the only downgrade on offense this off season, as Eifert was a really good player who just couldn't stay on the field until last year. Uzomah isn't a new player, obviously, but he did show some receiving talent towards the end of last year and I think he'll continue to grow with a QB who really likes his big TE target, in Joe Burrow.

6. Joe Burrow replaces Andy Dalton
And here is the biggest and possibly most impactful replacement for our offense. If Burrow lives up to even half of the hype surrounding him, he'll be a pro bowl talent for years to come. His ability to find the open receiver and process the entire field so quickly is nothing short of extraordinary. With the number of weapons available to him, he should be a very good rookie QB.

Defense:

7. D.J. Reader replaces Andrew Billings
Let's start off with the highest price tag replacement. Billings showed promise in his time here, but he suffered several injuries and never fulfilled the massive potential he had in his massive frame. Reader is, for lack of a better comparison, what Billings could have been. A large, space eating NT who occupies multiple blockers each snap and occasionally gets to the QB just out of sheer strength and power.

8. Logan Wilson (or Josh Bynes) replaces Nick Vigil
He's just a rookie, but Wilson should be a day 1 starter, unless the coaches decide to give the early snaps to Josh Bynes. Even if they choose the latter, Wilson should be the starter by the end of the season. His coverage ability and his toughness in tackling is an immediate upgrade over Vigil and a MASSIVE upgrade over whatever the hell Brown was doing out there before we cut him.

9. Akeem Davis-Gaither replaces Preston Brown
Granted, Preston Brown was cut and his position was mostly taken by Pratt, but he did play on passing downs for some reason before he was cut. Those snaps will now go to Wilson and ADG. Add Markus Bailey as a back up and it's truly amazing how much better this LB core got over the off season.

10. Trae Waynes replaces Dre Kirkpatrick
This one is kind of...iffy. I think it may be more of a lateral move overall, but Waynes is a significantly better tackler than Dre and he may be a better scheme fit for us than he was in Minnesota, since we apparently run man coverage more often than them. I know the contract is a big issue as well, but we have the cap space to overspend right now, as our QB will be on a rookie deal for the next 4 seasons.

11. Mackensie Alexander replaces B.W. Webb/Darqueze Dennard
While slot corner is technically not a starting position, it may as well be in today's NFL. And Alexander is a significant upgrade over Webb. Dennard and Alexander may be similarly skilled as slot corners, but Dennard is still looking for a job while Vikings fans seem to be upset that Alexander left, so I'll count that as a win.

12. Vonn Bell replaces Shawn Williams
And, finally, Bell replacing Williams appears to be an upgrade in terms of tackling, run defense and maybe even coverage ability. A great find later in the free agency period that will allow Williams to play in reserve, which is probably the better case for everyone involved.

So, among 22 (23 if you count both LB3 and Slot Corner) starters on offense and defense, we replaced TWELVE of them. In one off season! And not just changes for the sake of changes, but actual upgrades in most cases (a few possibly lateral moves with Uzomah over Eifert being the only arguable downgrade)!

And this doesn't even account for A.J. Green coming back onto the team. So that would make 13 different starters compared to last season!

I don't know about you guys, but that feels pretty unprecedented to me.

Have we ever had such a large roster turnover in one season?

I think you left a pretty good WR off your list and I wouldn't rule out the Olineman from KU beating out someone on the Right Side.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-06-2020, 01:25 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: All this turnover is why my expectations for this year are a little tempered.  When's the last time a team has bought in that many guys and had immediate results.

Last year KC and GB did pretty well with a lot of new faces.  

[CJD]

(05-06-2020, 03:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think you left a pretty good WR off your list and I wouldn't rule out the Olineman from KU beating out someone on the Right Side.

Yea, I left Green off the official list, but I mentioned him in the post :). I left him off because I don't know who he'd "replace," as we basically just didn't have a #1 WR last season haha.