The amount of change to our starting line up

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-06-2020, 03:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I think we are truly scraping the bottom of the barrel of Ross excuses by this point.  Hopefully Burrow's personality doesn't make Ross suck at his job, too 

Not an excuse for Ross, he should be mature enough to not let it have an impact on his play. We've established he is a spineless whiny wimp, maybe Burrow can help him overcome that.

Again, this is all an opinion based editorial. Last thing I need is to get pummeled by this board for having a thought on what COULD be happening POSSIBLY in THEORY.

[fredtoast]

(05-06-2020, 01:39 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I agree with you, there are vastly different personalities in a locker room. However, I don't think the relationship between Whitworth and Ocho was too important to the teams success. Their roles were independent of each other

IMO, the QBs relationships with his receivers and line are highly important. Some guys are really good at meshing with all personalities, some not so much. Don't get me wrong, Dalton is clearly a leader and has shown the ability to lead a group of men to success in the past.. I just think as he got older his ability to do that has gotten weaker. It's not him, it's more of the next generation and what they value and how they act. Unless there is a side of Dalton we don't see, I just can't see him having that personality that fits the young 20-24 year olds. 

Again just my opinion, maybe they like playing ladder ball with Dalton at his house.... but maybe they don't....

This is just silly.

WTF does Andy's home life have to do with leading the "new generation"?

Whitworth was a clear leader of the O-line when he was much older than Dalton.  What exactly was he doing to act like the "new generation" at home that Dalton isn't?

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-06-2020, 05:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is just silly.

WTF does Andy's home life have to do with leading the "new generation"?

Whitworth was a clear leader of the O-line when he was much older than Dalton.  What exactly was he doing to act like the "new generation" at home that Dalton isn't?

Calm down Fred, I said about 8 times it's my opinion. I have no facts to back this up and nothing to refute you with. Sorry mate.

I'll continue being silly with no regrets.

[fredtoast]

(05-06-2020, 05:25 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote:  Last thing I need is to get pummeled by this board for having a thought on what COULD be happening POSSIBLY in THEORY.

Sorry man but when you put silly stuff out there people are going to call you on it.

Personally I am convinced that A J McCarron hired a witch doctor to put a Voo-doo curse on Dalton in 2015.  It makes perfect sense, but I never mention it around here.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-06-2020, 05:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sorry man but when you put silly stuff out there people are going to call you on it.

Personally I am convinced that A J McCarron hired a witch doctor to put a Voo-doo curse on Dalton in 2015.  It makes perfect sense, but I never mention it around here.

I think you should more often, it seems valid to me. McCarron always seemed pretty petty and Dalton wasn't very injury prone until he arrived. He always thought he should be the starter... it's sad it came to voodoo to get what he wanted.

Nothing to be sorry for either. Unless you are Dalton himself or Ross, I'm not sure you can truly say what I said is fact or fiction, right? :)

[CincyKid]

(05-06-2020, 05:49 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I think you should more often, it seems valid to me. McCarron always seemed pretty petty and Dalton wasn't very injury prone until he arrived. He always thought he should be the starter... it's sad it came to voodoo to get what he wanted.

Nothing to be sorry for either. Unless you are Dalton himself or Ross, I'm not sure you can truly say what I said is fact or fiction, right? :)

Please reach out to McCarron and have him reverse the Bo Jackson curse, until it is gone we wont sniff a playoff win

******shh...... helicopters overhead*******

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(05-06-2020, 05:49 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Nothing to be sorry for either. Unless you are Dalton himself or Ross, I'm not sure you can truly say what I said is fact or fiction, right? :)

No, not right. The onus is on you to support your statement, not on other people to support why you have absolutely no support. It's just basic logic. 

You made crap up out of thin air. Own it, don't hide from it. 

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(05-06-2020, 05:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is just silly.

WTF does Andy's home life have to do with leading the "new generation"?

Whitworth was a clear leader of the O-line when he was much older than Dalton.  What exactly was he doing to act like the "new generation" at home that Dalton isn't?

I think you got the flow of our conversation a bit mixed. It was about Andy and Ross, not Andy and Whit. 

But regardless I completely agree. To say Andy and Ross can't get along because they're just two different birds without a shred of evidence is, as you put it, just silly. 

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-06-2020, 07:21 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: No, not right. The onus is on you to support your statement, not on other people to support why you have absolutely no support. It's just basic logic. 

You made crap up out of thin air. Own it, don't hide from it. 

Lol I heard Andy Dalton only wanted to watch Veggie Tales... Burrow is going to watch Spongebob with Ross and that will make him a better player.

IDK what you want from me man, I said it was an opinion piece. I admitted i have 0 factual evidence to support such claim. If you believe every player can get along together in happiness and that personal differences don't have an effect on player relations and locker room culture/vibe then go ahead!


My OPINION is that Andy Dalton didn't mesh well with some of our newer players. 

Either way, apologies to the OP, I didn't mean to derail his thread with an editorial piece.

[NATI BENGALS]

I feel like the old way of doing things would have been to pat themselves on the back after winning two games at the end of the year and playing the Dolphins tough and saying we are heading in the right direction. Resigning a bunch of our own and calling it a day.

I’m glad the reality of a 2-14 season made them overhaul the roster. Very happy with the additions. If the young OL can gel and improve we have a chance to be a major factor when NFL football gets going again.

I think the injection of youth and ZTs coaching style will give our old elite players a little kick in the ass motivation too. Career years from Dunlap, Geno, and A.J. would be spectacular.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Great thread CJD for the Offseason as a whole at least so far as we still might make some more moves yah never know.

Overturning over half our starters on Offense and Defense is pretty crazy and is exactly what Zac and company needed
to do to make it a new team and not ride on Marv's mediocre coattails. This is the only way we as fans can really judge
Zac and his staff, to see his team. Love what Lou and him did in FA, never seen this before in all my time.

Loved the Draft starting with Burrow, Tee and the Linebackers.

Also find XSF more of a LG and I read the Michael Jordan article today. I think MJ is the replacement for Miller at RG and
he should grow into a much better Guard for us.

[*jason*]

(05-06-2020, 07:37 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I feel like the old way of doing things would have been to pat themselves on the back after winning two games at the end of the year and playing the Dolphins tough and saying we are heading in the right direction. Resigning a bunch of our own and calling it a day.

I’m glad the reality of a 2-14 season made them overhaul the roster. Very happy with the additions. If the young OL can gel and improve we have a chance to be a major factor when NFL football gets going again.

I think the injection of youth and ZTs coaching style will give our old elite players a little kick in the ass motivation too. Career years from Dunlap, Geno, and A.J. would be spectacular.

Empty seats at Paul Brown Stadium, and the aural effect of playing 16 road games last year might have twisted managment's arm a lil bit as well. They were losing the city and the fan base. If you think looking for a new HC is exhausting; try relocating.

[*jason*]

(05-06-2020, 07:37 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I feel like the old way of doing things would have been to pat themselves on the back after winning two games at the end of the year and playing the Dolphins tough and saying we are heading in the right direction. Resigning a bunch of our own and calling it a day.

I’m glad the reality of a 2-14 season made them overhaul the roster. Very happy with the additions. If the young OL can gel and improve we have a chance to be a major factor when NFL football gets going again.

I think the injection of youth and ZTs coaching style will give our old elite players a little kick in the ass motivation too. Career years from Dunlap, Geno, and A.J. would be spectacular.

Empty seats at Paul Brown Stadium, and the aural effect of playing 16 road games last year might have twisted managment's arm a lil bit as well. They were losing the city and the fan base. If you think looking for a new HC is exhausting; try relocating.

[EatonFan]

Dennard is still a FA. He may still yet come back to the Bengals.

[GreenCornBengal]

Here is my ranking top to bottom from what you listed on what will have the biggest impact.

1) Jonah Williams returning to replace the turnstyle that was LT last year -- I believe this will be a huge upgrade and any QB will perform better when their blindside isn't consistently under pressure

2) Joe Burrow replacing Andy Dalton -- Dalton is good, Burrow is hopefully great or borderline Elite. It will take some time, but I think his presence rejuvenates the team some and we will see a gradual increase in QB play compared to the past few years

3) Reader replacing Billings -- it seems like we traded out Billings for the guy we hoped he would one day become. Billings was ok, but he wasn't consistent and seemed to miss big plays when he had the chance... Reader is proven, and a bit nastier IMO. Excited to watch him help the run D

4) Alexander in the slot -- Dennard is as good and perhaps better than Alexander, but he has injury problems. Just having a decent slot corner for 16 games will be big. No more BW Webb THANK YOU

5) Wilson replacing Vigil -- I have a lot of faith in Wilson, I think he is going to be REALLY good. Vigil was decent, but there were too many highlights of his ankles breaking last year. I think this will be an upgrade

6) Uzomah over Eifert -- I think we played it safe with Eifert last year and I'm not confident that his blocking was too good. I don't think there is a huge dropoff from Uzo to Eifert, and I think we will be pleasantly surprised at Uzo this year as the clear cut #1

7) XSF over Miller -- I think this is mainly a lateral move, but there is potential for XSF to outperform. I like how big the guy is (2 inches taller than Miller), at least he will take up some space.

8) ADG replacing Preston Browns replacements -- I think there is potential here for ADG to be a good player for us. I'm excited about the speed and coverage ability. He might not be as good as Preston Brown right away, but he has a great chance of being better than the other guys that replaced Brown last year

9) Higgins over Ross -- I'm not sure how quickly Higgins will see the field. I don't think he will instantly replace who is out there currently. Long-term, this could be our greatest pickup from the guys you listed, but I think it will take a year or two before he gets fully integrated into the offense.

10) Waynes over Kirkpatrick -- I don't think there is a huge difference here in coverage skills. But hey, he won't celebrate as hard when an opponent drops a pass and he does have a knack for causing fumbles. I think it's a lateral move and possibly a slight improvement.

11) Bell over Williams -- Williams may be our most underrated player and I don't think it's a 1 for 1 swap here. I think there will be packages for both and both will be beneficial to the team

12) Fred Johnson over Hart -- I'm not sure Fred will get the opportunity to replace Hart this season. Hopefully he comes in and takes the starting job, but even then, how much better than Hart will he be? We like to dog on Hart, but I'm not sure he is much worse than a Steelers practice squad player... to be determined.


Overall I'm super excited for the additions to the defense. After watching that s*** show the last two years, it will be a fresh of breath air just to see someone else get beat. The linebacker additions are key, whoever makes it to the field on gameday will have much greater lateral speed than last years bunch. Hopefully that means less easy completions and perimeter runs. It's tough waiting for this season!

[BengalChris]

(05-06-2020, 10:19 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't know about you guys, but I am still kind of reeling from the complete make over that this coaching staff and front office has done to our starting line up in the last 4 months.

Just look at the number of different starters compared to last year:

Offense:
1. LT Jonah Williams replaces Cordy Glenn/Andre Smith/John Jerry.
True that this isn't a new aquisition but it is still an upgrade and replacement from last year's depth chart.

2. Xavier Sua-Filo replaces John Miller
Replacing an average guard with an average guard may not be the sexiest replacement, but XSF apparently fits our scheme better and has flashed great potential at times. I'm optimistic about this change.

3. Fred Johnson (hopefully) replaces Bobby Hart
I know, I know. Bobby Hart wasn't AS BAD as the perception last year. But still, the possibility of Johnson replacing and upgrading him is a tantalizing thought, given what Johnson showed in the final 2 weeks of the season.

4. Tee Higgins replaces John Ross
Replacing an injury prone, ball dropping speedster with relatively limited uses (Read: "Go deep!") with a 6'4" 216 lb behemoth who catches almost everything you throw in his general direction who played in a pro style offense in college is going to be a really nice addition to this offense. Maybe Ross can stay healthy and can offer some explosion here and there, but as far as I'm concerned, he's a bench player at this point, which is great for our offense.

5. C.J. Uzomah replaced Tyler Eifert
Maybe the only downgrade on offense this off season, as Eifert was a really good player who just couldn't stay on the field until last year. Uzomah isn't a new player, obviously, but he did show some receiving talent towards the end of last year and I think he'll continue to grow with a QB who really likes his big TE target, in Joe Burrow.

6. Joe Burrow replaces Andy Dalton
And here is the biggest and possibly most impactful replacement for our offense. If Burrow lives up to even half of the hype surrounding him, he'll be a pro bowl talent for years to come. His ability to find the open receiver and process the entire field so quickly is nothing short of extraordinary. With the number of weapons available to him, he should be a very good rookie QB.

Defense:

7. D.J. Reader replaces Andrew Billings
Let's start off with the highest price tag replacement. Billings showed promise in his time here, but he suffered several injuries and never fulfilled the massive potential he had in his massive frame. Reader is, for lack of a better comparison, what Billings could have been. A large, space eating NT who occupies multiple blockers each snap and occasionally gets to the QB just out of sheer strength and power.

8. Logan Wilson (or Josh Bynes) replaces Nick Vigil
He's just a rookie, but Wilson should be a day 1 starter, unless the coaches decide to give the early snaps to Josh Bynes. Even if they choose the latter, Wilson should be the starter by the end of the season. His coverage ability and his toughness in tackling is an immediate upgrade over Vigil and a MASSIVE upgrade over whatever the hell Brown was doing out there before we cut him.

9. Akeem Davis-Gaither replaces Preston Brown
Granted, Preston Brown was cut and his position was mostly taken by Pratt, but he did play on passing downs for some reason before he was cut. Those snaps will now go to Wilson and ADG. Add Markus Bailey as a back up and it's truly amazing how much better this LB core got over the off season.

10. Trae Waynes replaces Dre Kirkpatrick
This one is kind of...iffy. I think it may be more of a lateral move overall, but Waynes is a significantly better tackler than Dre and he may be a better scheme fit for us than he was in Minnesota, since we apparently run man coverage more often than them. I know the contract is a big issue as well, but we have the cap space to overspend right now, as our QB will be on a rookie deal for the next 4 seasons.

11. Mackensie Alexander replaces B.W. Webb/Darqueze Dennard
While slot corner is technically not a starting position, it may as well be in today's NFL. And Alexander is a significant upgrade over Webb. Dennard and Alexander may be similarly skilled as slot corners, but Dennard is still looking for a job while Vikings fans seem to be upset that Alexander left, so I'll count that as a win.

12. Vonn Bell replaces Shawn Williams
And, finally, Bell replacing Williams appears to be an upgrade in terms of tackling, run defense and maybe even coverage ability. A great find later in the free agency period that will allow Williams to play in reserve, which is probably the better case for everyone involved.

So, among 22 (23 if you count both LB3 and Slot Corner) starters on offense and defense, we replaced TWELVE of them. In one off season! And not just changes for the sake of changes, but actual upgrades in most cases (a few possibly lateral moves with Uzomah over Eifert being the only arguable downgrade)!

And this doesn't even account for A.J. Green coming back onto the team. So that would make 13 different starters compared to last season!

I don't know about you guys, but that feels pretty unprecedented to me.

Have we ever had such a large roster turnover in one season?

It's funny how many of the guys being replaced the team either signed last year or re-signed last year. They even gave Brown, Webb and Miller multi-year deals which now count $5.333M in dead cap space. Last season's free agency was like striking out 6 consecutive times to end a baseball game.

This season they did a 180 and went for quality instead of bargain bin finds.

 

[Sled21]

(05-06-2020, 07:37 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I feel like the old way of doing things would have been to pat themselves on the back after winning two games at the end of the year and playing the Dolphins tough and saying we are heading in the right direction. Resigning a bunch of our own and calling it a day.

I’m glad the reality of a 2-14 season made them overhaul the roster. Very happy with the additions. If the young OL can gel and improve we have a chance to be a major factor when NFL football gets going again.

I think the injection of youth and ZTs coaching style will give our old elite players a little kick in the ass motivation too. Career years from Dunlap, Geno, and A.J. would be spectacular.

You can bet every player on the team is working just a little harder this off season, after seeing so many cuts and so much competition being brought in.....

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-06-2020, 10:06 PM)jason Wrote: Empty seats at Paul Brown Stadium, and the aural effect of playing 16 road games last year might have twisted managment's arm a lil bit as well. They were losing the city and the fan base. If you think looking for a new HC is exhausting; try relocating.

The empty seats had a big impact I'm quite sure. I remember one game, forget which one ? And they announced like 39,000 or something ? There's no way that stadium was over half full. There might have been 25,000 and that's pushing it.

[*jason*]

(05-07-2020, 08:43 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The empty seats had a big impact I'm quite sure. I remember one game, forget which one ? And they announced like 39,000 or something ? There's no way that stadium was over half full. There might have been 25,000 and that's pushing it.

I went to the SF game. I remember being surprised how many people were there. It was bright and sunny.... Red looks a lot like orange from a distance. Once the ass whoopin' was underway you could tell we were outnumbered.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-07-2020, 10:23 AM)jason Wrote: I went to the SF game. I remember being surprised how many people were there. It was bright and sunny.... Red looks a lot like orange from a distance. Once the ass whoopin' was underway you could tell we were outnumbered.

Yep

How many Steeler games has there been more piss and black than orange, especially last few years ?