(03-18-2021, 02:46 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: this is kinda like grading a draft before they play a single snap...    We know production doesnt always flow into new systems and sometimes players were drafted into the wrong system. (as we also know lol)

(03-18-2021, 02:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually it is more like grading a draft after the first two rounds.

We are not even close to finished in free agency.  So we have "lost" a lot more players than we have signed.  Obviously we are going to be worse at this point.

(03-18-2021, 02:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: PFF has released what they call a performance improvement index chart based on the players leaving compared to the confirmed players being added. Basically a WAR like what baseball has.

As of right now, the Bengals have gotten worse according to their evaluation at -2%
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2021-nfl-free-agency-pff-improvement-index-for-all-32-teams

Note that this chart seems to be updated daily, as yesterday it was sitting right at 0 for Bengals.

Patriots, WFT, Jets, Jags, Cards, Bears, Browns, Broncos, Rams, Vikings, Dolphins, and Chiefs are the teams they consider having improved so far through FA.

(03-18-2021, 02:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So far we have "lost" players that we have not replaced like starting LB Josh Bynes, SS Shawn Williams, P Kevin Huber, WR A J Green, C BJ Finney, and TE Cethan Carter (got 3 yr $7.8 million).  So obviously we have gotten worse.

But overall I think we will end up a lot better before it is all over.

The Two CBs we signed (Hilton, Awuzie) are not as good as the two we lost (Jackson, Alexander).

Hendrickson is an upgrade over Lawson.  Even if you think production is about the same Lawson's injury history was terrifying.

Ogunjobi is a huge upgrade at DT.

So let's wait and see what the result is after free agency is complete.  I am pretty certain we will re-sign Huber and maybe even Bynes.  I also think we will sign a WR in free agency.

(03-18-2021, 04:39 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Good stuff here. From the OP and Fred.

Just want to say that just measuring departures vs additions is not the only way to measure improvement. Another is health. We had some important guys miss most/all of the year last year (Reader, Waynes, Topou) or were carrying high salaries and not very productive for various reasons (Dunlap, Atkins, Green).

Getting the former group back in the fold and replacing the latter group with more productive guys should help us.

I know it is a bit of a cheat, but I look at CB like this:

2020: WJ3, Sims, Alexander, Phillips, Brown, Davis.
2021: Waynes, Awuzie, Hilton, Phillips, Brown, Davis.

Awuzie is better than Sims. Hilton/Alexander is a wash. Waynes is an unknown. The rest is the same.

On the D line, we get Reader back. And Topou. Added Ogunjobi. Swapped in Hendrickson for Lawson. Atkins is the unknown. Wren potentially back.

O line being the same is a problem. Most of our starters are reserve quality (or worse). Most of our reserves are not NFL quality. Though some are young. And getting Pollack helps. I'd note Hart was are #2 OL in terms of PFF and our best rum blocker. If he could play RG.....

LT: Sewell
LG: J. Williams (#3 OT)
C: Hopkins
RG: Hart (#4 OT)
RT: Reiff

Backups: G: Su'a Filo; OT/ OG: Adeniji; Draft at C/G top of round 3.

Pick 2 of Jordan, Johnson, Spain, Redmond, more draft picks or FAs to round things out. Cut Price to save $$$. If we sign a legit OG, then cut Hart.

(03-18-2021, 02:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: PFF has released what they call a performance improvement index chart based on the players leaving compared to the confirmed players being added. Basically a WAR like what baseball has.

As of right now, the Bengals have gotten worse according to their evaluation at -2.31%
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2021-nfl-free-agency-pff-improvement-index-for-all-32-teams

Note that this chart seems to be updated daily, as yesterday it was sitting right at 0 for Bengals.

Patriots, WFT, Jets, Jags, Cards, Bears, Browns, Broncos, Rams, Vikings, Dolphins, and Chiefs are the teams they consider having improved so far through FA.

EDIT - Bengals improvement number updated 3/19 at 7:50 AM CDT

(03-26-2021, 01:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Now that we are nearing the end of the 2nd week of FA, I've updated the OP to reflect as of yesterday.
Bengals are still one of the teams still considered to be worse than they were last year.

(03-26-2021, 01:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Now that we are nearing the end of the 2nd week of FA, I've updated the OP to reflect as of yesterday.
Bengals are still one of the teams still considered to be worse than they were last year.

(03-26-2021, 01:28 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: It’s a weird thing to judge because of the injuries last year. The team could be worse but will actually show better because of guys returning.

(03-26-2021, 01:28 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: It’s a weird thing to judge because of the injuries last year. The team could be worse but will actually show better because of guys returning.

(03-26-2021, 02:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, didn't expect them to say we improved anyways even though we got younger and more productive players over the
ones we lost while getting our injured players from last year we hardly got to see if at all. Reader and Waynes, Mixon coming
back etc. Tee becoming our #1 WR over AJ who was a shadow of himself, bringing in Ogunjobi over Geno who was nowhere 
last season, adding Reiff, Hendrickson, Hilton, Awuzie, Ricardo Allen, Spain, Apple. While retaining our good players.

We are improved and I would say by a large margin. Problem is we don't know if the coaching has improved although I really
like us bringing back Pollack and bringing in Hobby to coach the DL.

(03-26-2021, 03:00 PM)TJ528 Wrote: I can't say we're in improved by a large margin.  They've added some nice pieces but I personally dont think Hendrickson replacing Lawson is that big of an upgrade...we've improved in the defensive back field.  The defense still lacks depth and needs help on the DL.  The LB are young and definitely needs more depth as well.  Any injuries to this defensive group the way it is now and we'll be looking at the defense like we did last year.  I think the biggest obsticle is Lou coaching the defense but we'll have to wait and see on that.  

On offense we've add Reiff, and Pollack.  You can't rely on bringing in Sewell and starting him at RT and he instantly be an upgrade.  I mean Jonah has played 10 games in 2 years and he's still trying to get a grasp of the NFL game.  He's an average OL right now at this point in his career going into year 3.   

Personally, I don't think we're going to draft Sewell.  I think the organization has belief in Pollack and that he can turn a pile of crap into an average line.   I'll see it when i believe it.