***Official Bengals Free Agency Thread***

[Luvnit2]

(03-30-2021, 06:58 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I'd take Chase and Pitts over Sewell. Malik Wright who has been dead on during the Bengals FA said the Bengals wont take Pitts. I think its going to be Chase. 

Chase is a generational talent at WR and his chemistry with Burrow def adds a cherry on top.

Never heard of him

So he was dead on or 100% correct and made all the predictions prior to start of free agency?

If he really did that, he should go to Vegas, he is physic.  I would never even thought Hilton would consider us, but I guess your guy called it 3 weeks prior to visits. 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-30-2021, 10:57 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Saw where Alexander went back to the Vikings. 1yr/$1.13m... that's a steal.

I didn't hate the FA CBs they signed, but did Alexander not want to come back to play for Lou? I can't imagine the Bengals wouldn't want him back at that price, or even more than double that price. That seems like he took a low amount to play for Zimmer.

Should be telling that Alexander, WJ3, and Alexander left. I think the only defensive guy who returned was Wilson, right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[*ochocincos*]

(03-30-2021, 11:05 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I can't think of a single 2nd rounder that I would be willing to trade the ability to choose from Sewell/Chase/Pitts.

The Patriots 1st round pick is 15. At that point all three are gone, along with likely Slater/Smith/Waddle. You'll likely have the 3rd best OL or 4th best WR to choose from at 15, and nothing the Patriots have draft pick-wise really is tempting to make that downgrade for.

1 Ronnie Stanley is better than 2 Jonah Williams
1 Julio Jones is better than 2 Tyler Boyds
1 Travis Kelce is better than 2 Jermaine Greshams

At some point if you want to be a great team, you need some great players. Not saying you need a ton of great players, because I don't think any team has that, but you need at least 3-5 truly big time difference makers. The Bengals have borderline 1 right now (Bates, who I would love to see take another small step forward and cement that status) and they are in position to potentially get another one of those right now. At 15 that is much less likely.


- - - - - - -
EDIT: Worth noting that the last time the Bengals traded back with the Patriots, the Patriots got Chandler Jones (a guy who is on pace to be a HoF candidate) and the Bengals got Kevin Zeitler after David DeCastro (a guy on pace to be a borderline HoF candidate) was taken just a couple picks ahead of them.

The pick they got to trade down? Was used on Brandon Thompson.

David DeCastro
or
Kevin Zeitler + Brandon Thompson

Who would you have rather had?

Decastro would have only been a Bengal for his rookie contract, just like Zeitler. Bengals wouldn’t have paid that money to Decastro.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Saw an analytics based mock at NFL.com using most wins added as the basis for selection, it picked Sewell over Chase & Pitts. And Slater over Sewell to NY at #2.

https://www.nfl.com/news/cynthia-frelund-2021-nfl-mock-draft-2-0-analytics-based-picks-to-maximize-wins

[SunsetBengal]

(03-30-2021, 08:25 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Should be telling that Alexander, WJ3, and Alexander left. I think the only defensive guy who returned was Wilson, right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No offense, but telling "how"?  WJ3 was just another first round pick who flashed and can hold down a position, but never lived up to that "superstar" potential he drafted to be.  The team gave him 5 years, I'm alright with them letting him walk.  May he find greener pastures in DC.

As for Alexander, yes, he performed well.  However, I think that Mike Hilton is a serious upgrade from Alexander.  Not just from a coverage standpoint, but from all of the pass rushing, body sacrificing tackles, and general "right place, right time" traits that he brings to the position.  He's technically a corner, but he plays like he's a Safety.  FWIW, several of my Steeler fan friends are grieving that Pittsburgh didn't retain him.

[*rfaulk34*]

(03-30-2021, 05:26 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: its a good deal for the Bills...  You wont find many backups with harts experience and ability to give up sacks and pressures.

I wasn't too sure at the beginning of your post...but then you reeled me in at the end! Kudos!!!

[*ochocincos*]

(03-30-2021, 09:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: No offense, but telling "how"?  WJ3 was just another first round pick who flashed and can hold down a position, but never lived up to that "superstar" potential he drafted to be.  The team gave him 5 years, I'm alright with them letting him walk.  May he find greener pastures in DC.

As for Alexander, yes, he performed well.  However, I think that Mike Hilton is a serious upgrade from Alexander.  Not just from a coverage standpoint, but from all of the pass rushing, body sacrificing tackles, and general "right place, right time" traits that he brings to the position.  He's technically a corner, but he plays like he's a Safety.  FWIW, several of my Steeler fan friends are grieving that Pittsburgh didn't retain him.

Telling as in it doesn't seem like the defensive players want to return. Maybe it's the organization or Anarumo wanting to move on, or maybe it's the existing players not interested in returning barring an offer (way) bigger than the rest.

[Joelist]

Maybe Alexander likes being in a press man defense better - which is what Zim likes to run.

[sandwedge]

(03-30-2021, 10:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Telling as in it doesn't seem like the defensive players want to return. Maybe it's the organization or Anarumo wanting to move on, or maybe it's the existing players not interested in returning barring an offer (way) bigger than the rest.

Or the Bengals just wanted to get better on Defense...

[*ochocincos*]

(03-30-2021, 10:19 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Or the Bengals just wanted to get better on Defense...

I don't think they have, TBH.
You really see Hendrickson, Awuzie, and Hilton being better than Lawson, WJ3, and Alexander?

PFF grades for the guys who left vs their replacements:
WJ3 - 72.4 coverage grade
Awuzie - 52.0 coverage grade

Alexander - 67.2 coverage grade
Hilton - 67.0 coverage grade

Lawson - 84.9 pass rush grade
Hendrickson - 78.0 pass rush grade

The only grade where a replacement was better than the guy who left was Hilton had higher run defense and pass rush compared to Alexander.

Hendrickson had more sacks than Lawson, but Lawson had more pressures.
Hilton had more two more INTs than Alexander.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

So what you are saying is that by real stats, they improved but by judgement stats they didn't.

OK

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(03-30-2021, 10:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't think they have, TBH.
You really see Hendrickson, Awuzie, and Hilton being better than Lawson, WJ3, and Alexander?

PFF grades for the guys who left vs their replacements:
WJ3 - 72.4 coverage grade
Awuzie - 52.0 coverage grade

Alexander - 67.2 coverage grade
Hilton - 67.0 coverage grade

Lawson - 84.9 pass rush grade
Hendrickson - 78.0 pass rush grade

The only grade where a replacement was better than the guy who left was Hilton had higher run defense and pass rush compared to Alexander.

Hendrickson had more sacks than Lawson, but Lawson had more pressures.
Hilton had more two more INTs than Alexander.

Waynes is replacing WJ3. Awuzie is replacing Sims. We also added Apple.

Yes, I think:

Waynes, Awuzie, Hilton, Phillips, Apple, Brown

is better than:

WJ3, Sims, Alexander, Phillips, Davis, Brown

Not by a lot, though. Deeper. Awuzie >>>> Sims and Davis is the #7 CB now.

Dallas' D was a train wreck last year. Go back 2 years on Awuzie and he is in the 70s. And it is not all pass coverage. WJ3 is a terrible tackler and has hands of stone and is much better in man.

[*rfaulk34*]

(03-30-2021, 10:42 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: So what you are saying is that by real stats, they improved but by judgement stats they didn't.

OK

If someone else's opinion doesn't matter, then your opinion doesn't matter. 

That's for all you PFF haters. If you're gonna put someone on blast because you don't like their opinion--when they watch way more than you do--then your opinion is just as useless. 

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(03-31-2021, 12:18 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If someone else's opinion doesn't matter, then your opinion doesn't matter. 

That's for all you PFF haters. If you're gonna put someone on blast because you don't like their opinion--when they watch way more than you do--then your opinion is just as useless. 

LOL. Did I hit a sore spot? Well then, by that measure, if I can't disagree with their opinions then you can't disagree with mine.

They do indeed watch a lot more football than me . . . You are absolutely right about that.  But I watch more Bengals than they do. I don't have to take on a bunch of games, whether I want to watch them or not, try to evaluate every position and have my reports available for all games by Tuesday. It cracks me up when people get all bent out of shape or super hyped on some National sports broadcaster that has way more to cover than one team or sport. 

And I don't like watching sports that are ruled by judges. College Football Rankings, boxing, figure skating, gymnastics, diving and ski jumping. PFF isn't based off of stats, they're based on opinions on what they feel the player should have done on the play. Sometimes coaches tell players to do different things or make adjustments on certain plays and there is no way PFF knows that. If you want to use them as a be all, end all, go for it. Just don't get so pissy when someone questions an opinion that isn't even your own.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(03-31-2021, 03:40 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: LOL. Did I hit a sore spot? Well then, by that measure, if I can't disagree with their opinions then you can't disagree with mine.

They do indeed watch a lot more football than me . . . You are absolutely right about that.  But I watch more Bengals than they do. I don't have to take on a bunch of games, whether I want to watch them or not, try to evaluate every position and have my reports available for all games by Tuesday. It cracks me up when people get all bent out of shape or super hyped on some National sports broadcaster that has way more to cover than one team or sport. 

And I don't like watching sports that are ruled by judges. College Football Rankings, boxing, figure skating, gymnastics, diving and ski jumping. PFF isn't based off of stats, they're based on opinions on what they feel the player should have done on the play. Sometimes coaches tell players to do different things or make adjustments on certain plays and there is no way PFF knows that. If you want to use them as a be all, end all, go for it. Just don't get so pissy when someone questions an opinion that isn't even your own.

PFF seems to make a good baseline. A particular high score or low score will usually show the best and worst players. It's all the guys in the middle that have the biggest variation between score and playing ability.

[Murdock2420]

(03-30-2021, 06:58 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I'd take Chase and Pitts over Sewell. Malik Wright who has been dead on during the Bengals FA said the Bengals wont take Pitts. I think its going to be Chase. 

Chase is a generational talent at WR and his chemistry with Burrow def adds a cherry on top.

People need to pump the breaks on using this term so much. Chase looks like a good prospect but generational means he is better then... Hill, Diggs, Adams, Evans, OBJ, Michael Thomas, Hopkins, Julio Jones...  

He may one day be as good as a few of these guys but he isn't better then them now.. so not generational. 

Generational talent is a guy who changes the position... see Barry Sanders or Bo Jsckson.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-31-2021, 12:06 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Waynes is replacing WJ3. Awuzie is replacing Sims. We also added Apple.

Yes, I think:

Waynes, Awuzie, Hilton, Phillips, Apple, Brown

is better than:

WJ3, Sims, Alexander, Phillips, Davis, Brown

Not by a lot, though. Deeper. Awuzie >>>> Sims and Davis is the #7 CB now.

Dallas' D was a train wreck last year. Go back 2 years on Awuzie and he is in the 70s. And it is not all pass coverage. WJ3 is a terrible tackler and has hands of stone and is much better in man.

You can't count Waynes in this. He was added the year prior.
Waynes would have still been here even if WJ3 re-signed.

So a better question is what's better for 2021?
WJ3, Waynes, Alexander, Phillips, Apple, Brown
or
Waynes, Awuzie, Hilton, Phillips, Apple, Brown

[*bfine32*]

(03-30-2021, 10:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't think they have, TBH.
You really see Hendrickson, Awuzie, and Hilton being better than Lawson, WJ3, and Alexander?

PFF grades for the guys who left vs their replacements:
WJ3 - 72.4 coverage grade
Awuzie - 52.0 coverage grade

Alexander - 67.2 coverage grade
Hilton - 67.0 coverage grade

Lawson - 84.9 pass rush grade
Hendrickson - 78.0 pass rush grade

The only grade where a replacement was better than the guy who left was Hilton had higher run defense and pass rush compared to Alexander.

Hendrickson had more sacks than Lawson, but Lawson had more pressures.
Hilton had more two more INTs than Alexander.

All I need is "you're right" or "you're wrong".

Not too long ago, the Bengals would have paid the same money to keep their own and out "1 big FA signing" would be a has been about a year out from retirement.

Those same folks currently complaining about; we've not gotten better with all these moves, would have been complaining back then because we've done nothing buy re-sign players from a crappy D. Some hard to please message board philosopher would have shared with us the definition of insanity.

[spazz70]

(03-30-2021, 10:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't think they have, TBH.
You really see Hendrickson, Awuzie, and Hilton being better than Lawson, WJ3, and Alexander?

PFF grades for the guys who left vs their replacements:
WJ3 - 72.4 coverage grade
Awuzie - 52.0 coverage grade

Alexander - 67.2 coverage grade
Hilton - 67.0 coverage grade

Lawson - 84.9 pass rush grade
Hendrickson - 78.0 pass rush grade

The only grade where a replacement was better than the guy who left was Hilton had higher run defense and pass rush compared to Alexander.

Hendrickson had more sacks than Lawson, but Lawson had more pressures.
Hilton had more two more INTs than Alexander.

Awuzie is not replacing WJ3...Waynes is CB1...Awuzie was a fast riser before last year when he was injured and in COVID, missed like 6-8 games....He is also a zone CB....WJ3 will probably excel with WFT as a m2m CB.  

Hilton can cover but he also excels at rushing the passer(which we need desperately) and stopping the run.

Hendrickson may have benefited from their DL but watched his tape and he finishes and stays on the field.  I am tired of the pressure stat....Do you want to know how many times I yelled at the TV because Lawson would be right there and did not finish the play only to see the QB complete a 1st down pass or run for 10 yards?   And again, he stays healthy and on the field.

Are we better?  I do not know yet, I have not seen them play.

[Sled21]

(03-31-2021, 09:44 AM)ochocincos Wrote: You can't count Waynes in this. He was added the year prior.
Waynes would have still been here even if WJ3 re-signed.

So a better question is what's better for 2021?
WJ3, Waynes, Alexander, Phillips, Apple, Brown
or
Waynes, Awuzie, Hilton, Phillips, Apple, Brown

If we're going to be in zone coverage most of the time, which it appears we will be, I'll take the second group.