Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2021, 06:22 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yep. The OL has better depth than the WR’s whether folks want to admit it or not.

We need three starting WRs and we already have 2 good ones.

We need 5 starting O-linemen and we only have one good one who is healthy.

[Murdock2420]

(04-04-2021, 08:47 PM)jason Wrote: Exactly... It was bad optics because Mike Jordan (I'm done calling that scrub Michael Jordan) was right there, and that Washington front 4 is gnarly, but it really was a freak occurance... I'm not saying protection isn't important. I'm just saying we could've been bookended by Sewell and Jonah, and that still happens.

Eh... I'm not sure it was all that freak... 

I agree other QBs do get hurt behind even good lines but with Burrow there was a little more to it. We have a suspect line and our coaching strategy was run empty sets and pass more then anyone else. That is just asking for the kid to get killed. I feel like everyone watching this team last year and watching Burrow get hit week after week had to start thinking that he was going to get injured before it all ended.

The injury falls on lack of oline talent, mixed with really really poor play calling. 

[Frank Booth]

(04-04-2021, 09:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We need three starting WRs and we already have 2 good ones.

We need 5 starting O-linemen and we only have one good one who is healthy.

tell em

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(04-04-2021, 09:08 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Eh... I'm not sure it was all that freak... 

I agree other QBs do get hurt behind even good lines but with Burrow there was a little more to it. We have a suspect line and our coaching strategy was run empty sets and pass more then anyone else. That is just asking for the kid to get killed. I feel like everyone watching this team last year and watching Burrow get hit week after week had to start thinking that he was going to get injured before it all ended.

The injury falls on lack of oline talent, mixed with really really poor play calling. 

Joe Burrow had his best completion percentage at LSU when he threw between 30 and 35 passes per game.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-04-2021, 09:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We need three starting WRs and we already have 2 good ones.

We need 5 starting O-linemen and we only have one good one who is healthy.

Jonah, Reiff, and Hopkins are all penciled in as opening week starters unless we hear otherwise. That leaves two guard spots for Spain/XSF/draft pick to battle it out for. Very few teams have 5 “good” starters on their OL. There’s always a weak link in there somewhere. Just depends how weak. If ours is Quinton Spain that’s world’s better than last year when we had Jordan starting double digit games.

[*jason*]

(04-04-2021, 09:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Jonah, Reiff, and Hopkins are all penciled in as opening week starters unless we hear otherwise. That leaves two guard spots for Spain/XSF/draft pick to battle it out for. Very few teams have 5 “good” starters on their OL. There’s always a weak link in there somewhere. Just depends how weak. If ours is Quinton Spain that’s world’s better than last year when we had Jordan starting double digit games.

On top of that... If we need 3 good WRs and have 2, then getting that 3rd right now seems like the path of least resistance. Bam!!! Problem solved at that group for 3-5 years... And the best part; there's 6 more rounds of the draft to try and address the line.

[*jason*]

(04-04-2021, 09:08 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Eh... I'm not sure it was all that freak... 

I agree other QBs do get hurt behind even good lines but with Burrow there was a little more to it. We have a suspect line and our coaching strategy was run empty sets and pass more then anyone else. That is just asking for the kid to get killed. I feel like everyone watching this team last year and watching Burrow get hit week after week had to start thinking that he was going to get injured before it all ended.

The injury falls on lack of oline talent, mixed with really really poor play calling. 

Well yeah... That issue of play calling, strategy, and coaching isn't gonna get addressed this year. That's outta our hands though.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-04-2021, 09:42 PM)jason Wrote: On top of that... If we need 3 good WRs and have 2, then getting that 3rd right now seems like the path of least resistance. Bam!!! Problem solved at that group for 3-5 years... And the best part; there's 6 more rounds of the draft to try and address the line.

Yep. And like Tony Pike said on that Civil War video I posted, good WR’s can help their QB just like good OL play can. You can have the best OL in the world, but if guys aren’t getting open you’re going to give up some coverage sacks.

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2021, 09:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Jonah, Reiff, and Hopkins are all penciled in as opening week starters unless we hear otherwise. That leaves two guard spots for Spain/XSF/draft pick to battle it out for. Very few teams have 5 “good” starters on their OL. There’s always a weak link in there somewhere. Just depends how weak. If ours is Quinton Spain that’s world’s better than last year when we had Jordan starting double digit games.

Jonah and Hopkins have never been anything better than average.  But in Boyd and Higgins we already have to well-above average WRs.

There is no way you can argue that our O-line has anything close to the talent we have at WR.

Boyd....11th in receptions among all WRs over the last three years.  Not a big downfield threat but among the elite in the league as a possession receiver.  Since 2018 only 3 WRs have more first down conversions on 3rd/4th down plays than Boyd (65).  And no WR has as many fourth down receptions (10) or first down conversions (10) as Boyd.  We don't have  single O-lineman who would be ranked as high at his position as Boyd is.

Higgins.... Among the 35 WRs with at least 100 targets last year Higgins ranked 12th in yards per reception (13.6) and 17th in yards per target (8.4).  He was 18th among all WRs in reception of 20+ yards (14) despite basically playing only 14 games (he had zero targets opening day and only 1 target before getting injured in the last game of the season).  These numbers would be good for any #1 WR in the league, but they are even more impressive considering Higgins was just a rookie.  Again, not a single O-lineman on our team would be ranked as high at his position as Higgins is.

when you consider that we only need three starting WRS as opposed to 5 starting O-linemen it is obvious that the level of talent between these two units is not even close.

[NATI BENGALS]

We have two stud WRs. Is there some kind of rule prohibiting us from using a committee for our 3rd WR?


I’m trying to remember all the times a team used a top 10 pick on a #3 WR and it worked out perfectly. John Ross comes to mind. I don’t have time to dig for other examples right now.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(04-04-2021, 09:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Jonah, Reiff, and Hopkins are all penciled in as opening week starters unless we hear otherwise. That leaves two guard spots for Spain/XSF/draft pick to battle it out for. Very few teams have 5 “good” starters on their OL. There’s always a weak link in there somewhere. Just depends how weak. If ours is Quinton Spain that’s world’s better than last year when we had Jordan starting double digit games.

Honestly I'm considering Hopkins starting the season PUP or IR until I see otherwise.

[Rubekahn29]

(04-04-2021, 10:00 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: We have two stud WRs. Is there some kind of rule prohibiting us from using a committee for our 3rd WR?


I’m trying to remember all the times a team used a top 10 pick on a #3 WR and it worked out perfectly. John Ross comes to mind. I don’t have time to dig for other examples right now.

We used a committee last year, and it was miserable as not a single receiver could creat their own space.

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2021, 10:04 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: We used a committee last year, and it was miserable as not a single receiver could creat their own space.

No we did not use a committee for #3 WR last year.  Boyd, Higgins, and Green were clearly our top 3 and no one else was even close.  They all had 100+ targets while our #4 WR (Tate) only had 22.  The problem was that Green had one of the worst seasons by any WR over the last 10 years.

If we can replace Green with just an average WR it will be a big upgrade.

[Frank Booth]

(04-04-2021, 09:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Jonah and Hopkins have never been anything better than average.  But in Boyd and Higgins we already have to well-above average WRs.

There is no way you can argue that our O-line has anything close to the talent we have at WR.

Boyd....11th in receptions among all WRs over the last three years.  Not a big downfield threat but among the elite in the league as a possession receiver.  Since 2018 only 3 WRs have more first down conversions on 3rd/4th down plays than Boyd (65).  And no WR has as many fourth down receptions (10) or first down conversions (10) as Boyd.  We don't have  single O-lineman who would be ranked as high at his position as Boyd is.

Higgins.... Among the 35 WRs with at least 100 targets last year Higgins ranked 12th in yards per reception (13.6) and 17th in yards per target (8.4).  He was 18th among all WRs in reception of 20+ yards (14) despite basically playing only 14 games (he had zero targets opening day and only 1 target before getting injured in the last game of the season).  These numbers would be good for any #1 WR in the league, but they are even more impressive considering Higgins was just a rookie.  Again, not a single O-lineman on our team would be ranked as high at his position as Higgins is.

when you consider that we only need three starting WRS as opposed to 5 starting O-linemen it is obvious that the level of talent between these two units is not even close.

yep

[BobJohnson55]

(04-04-2021, 10:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No we did not use a committee for #3 WR last year.  Boyd, Higgins, and Green were clearly our top 3 and no one else was even close.  They all had 100+ targets while our #4 WR (Tate) only had 22.  The problem was that Green had one of the worst seasons by any WR over the last 10 years.

If we can replace Green with just an average WR it will be a big upgrade.

It's way more complicated then that because green was taking on #1 corners,he was still seen as #1 on our team lol. Higgins was not the #1 receiver he was #2. And boyd is not good on the outside because he doesn't have the break away speed needed. He is a good slot receiver and that is it. So anyone calling them two elite receivers on our team you are over valuing them. 

[BobJohnson55]

(04-04-2021, 10:00 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: We have two stud WRs. Is there some kind of rule prohibiting us from using a committee for our 3rd WR?


I’m trying to remember all the times a team used a top 10 pick on a #3 WR and it worked out perfectly. John Ross comes to mind. I don’t have time to dig for other examples right now.

We have one bust 1st round receiver compared to several bust high pick o linemen. I thought Ross would be good and wanted to draft him but I didn't know he was small and fragile. Never take anymore midget receivers unless they are late in the draft. 

[BritishBengal]

I can totally understand how and why this discussion of who to take at 5 is so divisive. Of the obvious 3 in Sewell, Chase and Pitts all look like slam dunk players. The appeal of re-uniting Chase and Burrow is huge and I can totally understand why many people think it's the best route to take. That said, for me, if we were to look at this objectively, Sewell really should be the only option for a number of reasons.

Good drafting isn't simply a process of looking to build a roster for the up coming season, rather looking forward 2 to 3 seasons and predicting areas of serious weakness due to contractual issues with current players. The Reiff signing was a good one but as others have mentioned is fundamentally a one year deal. So going into 2022 the team will be in the same boat, requiring a solid talent at tackle.

It's more than this however. We are one year removed from Mixon receiving a very healthy contract. You can argue whether it was the right move but the man is undeniably talented. What is also undeniable is that he has not had an opportunity, since being drafted, to maximise his potential due to poor line play. Protecting Burrow also means establishing a reliable run game and drafting Sewell would have a huge impact in this. Whether you start him at T or G, he would offer up a huge talent injection. Stick at LG and pull him all over the place to create havoc.

I think ultimately Sewell represents a high floor high ceiling draft pick. Even if he doesnt meet his huge potential he will start in the league for a decade plus.

What I cant stop thinking about is how, of all the personnel move Tampa made to bring home a superbowl, Tristan Wirfs arguably was the most important after Brady.

[wanga]

Stud WR in Chase, best oline G or T in 2, best edge rusher in 3 and best oline G,C or T in 4.
Pickup another T or Guard either before or after the draft depending on who is cut loose etc.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-04-2021, 04:07 PM)jason Wrote: Has anyone mentioned that Carson Palmer got hurt behind an excellent O line?

Shit happens... I'll be cool if we draft Sewell, but we're far from set offensively. We have no identity, and there is no explosive potential. Nobody on the offensive side of the ball keeps opposing DCs up at night... We've put Burrow on some pedestal, and act like he can just carry this team. He can't. I kept hearing that Burrow can "throw WRs open". Looks a lot easier when those WRs are Jefferson and Chase at the collegiate level.

It may not be to everyone's liking but the O line has been addressed at least somewhat. You can't say the same for the receivers. I keep hearing that we just need a solid number 3 to get us about 600 yards... I think it'd be better if that solid number 3 was the very solid Tyler Boyd.

I'm cool with any of the 3 guys we've decided are most likely to end up here, but I really think Chase is the way to go.

I'm tired of seeing these types of posts. Just because there's examples of guys getting hurt behind great lines = we shouldn't try to have a great line? You're better than this.

1. Having a good/great line massively improves the chances of your guy not getting hurt. Fewer hits and sacks = fewer opportunities to get injured. It's really simple.

2. This isn't just about keeping Burrow healthy (which is clearly huge). It's also about the run game ranking 31st in yards/carry last year. Better blocking = better run game...which leads to shorter 3rd downs. Shorter 3rd downs help Burrow and the entire offense.

3. It's also about the deep passing game. Better blocking = more time to throw and let routes develop so guys are open. This will lead to more explosive plays, which will also lead to safeties not crowding up as much, which will lead to more open guys inside 10 yards.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Football is all about chain reactions. If the line is really good and you have a good QB, things tend to snowball from there.

This is why if you look at the last couple decades of SB winners, you aren't going to see many names like Megatron, Fitzgerald, Moss, Chad, AJ Green, Julio, etc. You're going to see elite QB's with good lines blocking for them.

We've been trying the QB/WR tandem thing for a long time now. Blake to Pickens. Carson to Chad. Dalton to Green. Now we want Burrow to Chase? If Burrow is going to be an elite QB, those guys cycle through WR's. Think of Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Ben. How many WR's have those guys gone through?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-04-2021, 11:00 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: Calvin ran a 4.33 and was 237lbs and 6'5. Essentially the same size and a touch faster even.

Thanks for this, didn't remember how fast Calvin ran. But point being, he was a generational talent and so is Pitts if we are 
going to say there is one in this Draft.