Anybody want to.discuss the current state of the LBers?

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-25-2021, 10:42 PM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: Cam Magrone out of Michigan might be there in the 5th for us. He's highly underrated and could be an upgrade to Pratt.

Wait...

You want to take a guy in the 5th to replace your most experienced LB?

[Essex Johnson]

(04-25-2021, 05:21 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Curious enough the Bengals added depth in the secondary
Ricardo Allen, Eli Apple, Mike Hilton
Added some intresting pieces on the D-line
Trey Hendrickson, Larry Ogenjobi.
Had conversations with Ryan Kerrigan.

But they did nothing in.regards to the LBers.
Last time I.checked games can be won or lost
At the 2nd level especially with the evolution
Of the TE position.

Right now the Bengals LB core is easily in the
Bottom of the AFC talent wise.
Germaine Pratt is kinda meh. He just doesnt
Make enough impact plays.
Logan Wilson showed some real promise and range
Akeem Davis Gaither had his struggles with the
Speed of the NFL game at times
Markus Bailey looks a career special teamer
Jordan  Evans had his best year but he is a role player
At best.

Looking at the list of available LBers
I.dont understand why guys like Justin Houston, have not
Been looked at. He can still close in and finish off
The QB.

Our LBers are young and seem.to.be lacking
That savy vet to help accelerate their growth
(Think Dhani Jones)
Another thing....drafting a Kyle Pitts would allow  these
Lbers to actually get better on coverage downfield in practice
Guarding Sample or Uzomah or Shreck isnt
Exactly prepping them.for the likes of Ebron, Andrews
Or Gieski on game day.

Maybe they draft a Jamin Davis on day 2
Or whoever.
I cant see Lou going into 2021 with what they have

We are thin over all at LB.. was hoping we sign one in FA but did not

[J24]

I think we will be fine at the LB situation this season. Wilson looks like a 3 down backer and Pratt is a modern day 2 down thumber. ADG should take a step toward and Evans is underrated as a backup LB.

[*bfine32*]

(04-25-2021, 09:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Didn’t say it’s not important. Said it’s not as important as a good pass rush and secondary.

It's why I said "that important", 

[Essex Johnson]

Seems we have overlooked LBS too long.. sure feels our defense started to fall off as our LBS got bad... maybe we can follow TB lead as their LBs should helped lead the way to dominate in playoffs and both the Ravens and Steelers have continued to excel with a good LB crew and inflict punishment on us

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-25-2021, 05:44 PM)Synric Wrote: Linebacker is one of those positions it takes 3 years and it didnt help the Bengals interior line struggled in alot of different aspects like getting off blocks and even playing the correct gaps. Early in the season was the worst several times you seen 2 or even 3 players trying to fill the same gap. Germaine Pratt in 2019 was one of the best run stopping LBers when he was starting but had issues in Pass Defense. In 2020 he was one of the worst run stopping linebackers and took a step forward in Pass defense.

Germaine Pratt and Logan Wilson had some really nice bright spots and I liked how Lou worked his rookie linebackers into the lineup on 3rd down no matter the down and distance. ADG started out slow which was expected because he had never actually played traditional linebacker but ended the season on a high note.

Im looking forward to seeing how the young guys progress especially if the Defensive Line in front of them plays better.

This. We are young, we are strong lol

But we are better. Logan and ADG and even Markus Bailey were great picks IMO. Logan Wilson played very good as a rookie
and even better than I thought he would. He has great instincts and wasn't blown away by the speed of the NFL game like ADG
was. Bailey was coming off of some bad injuries. 

Didn't Wilson have at least 2 picks last season?

Saw him also make some nice tackles for loss.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-26-2021, 12:12 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This. We are young, we are strong lol

But we are better. Logan and ADG and even Markus Bailey were great picks IMO. Logan Wilson played very good as a rookie
and even better than I thought he would. He has great instincts and wasn't blown away by the speed of the NFL game like ADG
was. Bailey was coming off of some bad injuries. 

Didn't Wilson have at least 2 picks last season?

Saw him also make some nice tackles for loss.

Yep. 2 INT’s, 4 TFL, 3 PD, 2 QB hits, and a sack, despite only having played 32% of the snaps on defense. I definitely liked what I saw out of Wilson last year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-26-2021, 12:24 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yep. 2 INT’s, 4 TFL, 3 PD, 2 QB hits, and a sack, despite only having played 32% of the snaps on defense. I definitely liked what I saw out of Wilson last year.

Thanks bro, thought he played great from what I saw. Give him more snaps is my call.

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-25-2021, 09:30 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: What warrants the excitement behind ADG? Wilson made a few splash plays and was meh. I think the linebackers are in the eye of the beholder right now. I’m beholding some low level Vigil type dudes...

I mean he was making the jump from App State to the NFL. Rookie LBs usually have a tough time. He is loaded with physical ability. And showed up all over the stat sheet last year.

31 tackles 1 int 3 PD 0.5 sack 2 QB hits and no TDs allowed in coverage and only allowed a 69 QB rating.

I think the ceiling is really high for him. Him and Hilton can bring a serious speed pass rush blitz threat. ADG has the tools to be a dynamic player.

[BURROWorBUST]

(04-25-2021, 10:49 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Wait...

You want to take a guy in the 5th to replace your most experienced LB?

1. He wouldn't start right away.
2. He might have more experience at LB than Pratt does. Granted, not NFL experience, but Pratt only had 1 year at LB at NCState before we drafted him. 

[fredtoast]

(04-25-2021, 06:00 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Bengals drafted what 3 good looking LBers last year and Pratt the year before. Gotta give them a freaking chance before drafting new guys we won’t give a chance. Come on. Not saying they will be great but jeez

This.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(04-25-2021, 05:44 PM)Synric Wrote: Linebacker is one of those positions it takes 3 years and it didnt help the Bengals interior line struggled in alot of different aspects like getting off blocks and even playing the correct gaps. Early in the season was the worst several times you seen 2 or even 3 players trying to fill the same gap. Germaine Pratt in 2019 was one of the best run stopping LBers when he was starting but had issues in Pass Defense. In 2020 he was one of the worst run stopping linebackers and took a step forward in Pass defense.

Germaine Pratt and Logan Wilson had some really nice bright spots and I liked how Lou worked his rookie linebackers into the lineup on 3rd down no matter the down and distance. ADG started out slow which was expected because he had never actually played traditional linebacker but ended the season on a high note.

Im looking forward to seeing how the young guys progress especially if the Defensive Line in front of them plays better.

You wrote what I was going to type out better with more time to do it.

They drafted 3 last year. They played with a below average revolving door we had to call a D line. I feel like they DO need another LB, but that can happen after the draft and cuts occur. I don’t want another young player drafted to play D there. A special teams guy drafted late is just fine though.

Wait and see how Wilson and Gaither progress this year before investing another early pick at that spot.

[*ochocincos*]

The LBs are not good overall, but they do have their moments occasionally.
The reality is that Pratt and Wilson are 3rd rounders, ADG is a 4th rounder, and Bailey and Evans are late-round guys.
Wilson, ADG, and Bailey have only been here one year, Pratt for two.
A typical mid-rounder (especially a LB) can take 3-4 years to develop, so I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that they are learning and growing vs just being bad.

In 2020, Pratt and Wilson were actually decent in coverage, but terrible against the run.
If they can improve their run defense (which partly is due to performance of the DL in front of them), I think they could turn into decent starting LBs.

[impactplaya]

The quality of depth at LB is not the best.
If a injury for any extent of time happens to Pratt
ADG or Wilson then your really asking alot of
Evans or Bailey.
Neither of which is ready to play 60 snaps and up per
Game.
It would be a smart to sign a couple FA pieces
For experienced depth

[fredtoast]

I don't have any hard stats to back this up but i believe production from LBs is more dependent on coaching than any other position on defense. Playing LB is all about making the proper reads and being in position to make plays.

I also think fans often put too much blame on D-linemen for poor run defense. Not saying D-line is not important in stopping the run but LB play is equal to D-line in run defense.

[fredtoast]

Markus Bailey has the potential to be a solid contributor on defense. He was a high level prospect who dropped due to injury.

Obviously it is nothing we can depend on happing but he has a lot more potential than the average 7th round pick.

[Au165]

(04-26-2021, 10:36 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't have any hard stats to back this up but i believe production from LBs is more dependent on coaching than any other position on defense. Playing LB is all about making the proper reads and being in position to make plays.

I also think fans often put to much blame on D-linemen for poor run defense. Not saying D-line is not important in stopping the run but LB play is equal to D-line in run defense.

It's complex because people often misassign what is and isn't a linebacker's responsibility on a given play. Linebackers have specific assignments in the run game, as do safeties, on each play and most fans have no clue how that works so they see a guy run by a linebacker and assume it was his fault but it very well could have been someone else's and he had to control his gap for a potential cutback. I will disagree though, there is not enough blame put on the d line when it comes to run defense by most fans. Often times fans look at the D line as basically only being pass rushers but they play an important role in holding a gap and keeping the linebackers clean to fill. Additionally, the outside zone has made playing linebacker tough because you have to move with your assignment and if you overrun it, or a lineman gets washed out, the back puts his foot in the ground and they are gone. 

[fredtoast]

(04-26-2021, 10:44 AM)Au165 Wrote: It's complex because people often misassign what is and isn't a linebacker's responsibility on a given play. Linebackers have specific assignments in the run game, as do safeties, on each play and most fans have no clue how that works so they see a guy run by a linebacker and assume it was his fault but it very well could have been someone else's and he had to control his gap for a potential cutback. I will disagree though, there is not enough blame put on the d line when it comes to run defense by most fans. Often times fans look at the D line as basically only being pass rushers but they play an important role in holding a gap and keeping the linebackers clean to fill. Additionally, the outside zone has made playing linebacker tough because you have to move with your assignment and if you overrun it, or a lineman gets washed out, the back puts his foot in the ground and they are gone. 

Good points.

Our run defense has been bad going back to the last years Marvin was here. Don't know how many times I saw Geno plug up the hole or Dulap seal off the outside ust to have the RB cut back into a wide open field because other players were not doing their job.

[Au165]

(04-26-2021, 11:04 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Good points.

Our run defense has been bad going back to the last years Marvin was here. Don't know how many times I saw Geno plug up the hole or Dulap seal off the outside ust to have the RB cut back into a wide open field because other players were not doing their job.

There was a funny clip this year where a journalist blamed ADG for blowing a backside run assignment on twitter during the game and he tweeted immediately after that wasn't his responsibility, he didn't say who but from the play I saw I think I remember it actually being the safeties job to fill. Run fits are tough, and one of the things play action does that people often don't talk about is it gets defenders guessing run or pass and so you see D linemen jump out of their run fit trying to get a pass rush only to get creased because they got washed out of their gap guessing pass.

[SadFaceBengal15]

(04-26-2021, 10:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Lemacus Bailey has the potential to be a solid contributor on defense. He was a high level prospect who dropped due to injury.

Obviously it is nothing we can depend on happing but he has a lot more potential than the average 7th round pick.

Who’s lemarcus Bailey?