Perhaps Mike Brown isn't so Semi-Retired?

[Bengalholic]

(05-03-2021, 02:34 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This is just such a letdown of an article. I thought we were done with ownership meddling in football operations?

And why the hell is Alexander back? I mean he is directly stepping on Pollacks toes when the owner is taking advice from him.

And lets not forget this is the same guy that drafted Ogbuehi and Fisher back to back...

What a disaster.

Willie Anderson also gave the Bengals input on Carman...because again, he was someone who had worked with him personally. This thread just seems like a lot of overreaction to absolutely nothing.

[PDub80]

- Bengals have the best draft in football in 2020.... No one brings up Mike Brown

- Bengals have a draft in 2021 and before players can even do a mini camp.... people ***** that Mike Brown had a hand in the draft.

I swear to god, the illogical pissing and moaning that goes on with ANYTHING these days is just so perplexing to me. Welcome to 2021: The year of the 1 way street.

IMO, after a lot of research, reading, and listening, this draft is AWESOME. Just, AWESOME in every way. Everything the Bengals did made a ton of sense. Really excited for these new players and the competition they bring!

Plenty of real issues to complain about regarding the Bengals, but to already be bitching about this draft? Goofy AF.

[Destro]

As someone who has spent zero minutes in a front office meeting, I think Mike still controls things. I think the difference between now, and say 8 years ago, is that he probably does more listening and getting opinions. It's like he has a cabinet and they advise him on what to do. He still holds the final thumbs up or down, but is more likely to let others state their case.

[AtomicBlaze]

(05-03-2021, 03:27 PM)PDub80 Wrote: - Bengals have the best draft in football in 2020.... No one brings up Mike Brown

- Bengals have a draft in 2021 and before players can even do a mini camp.... people ***** that Mike Brown had a hand in the draft.

I swear to god, the illogical pissing and moaning that goes on with ANYTHING these days is just so perplexing to me. Welcome to 2021: The year of the 1 way street.

IMO, after a lot of research, reading, and listening, this draft is AWESOME. Just, AWESOME in every way. Everything the Bengals did made a ton of sense. Really excited for these new players and the competition they bring!

Plenty of real issues to complain about regarding the Bengals, but to already be bitching about this draft? Goofy AF.

There is plenty of reasons to ***** about the draft, they didn't make OL the priority.  If Burrow gets hurt this year again I will blame them.

[TecmoBengals]

(05-03-2021, 03:39 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: There is plenty of reasons to ***** about the draft, they didn't make OL the priority.  If Burrow gets hurt this year again I will blame them.

They drafted an OL in the second round and two more later in the draft. It was a priority.

[AtomicBlaze]

(05-03-2021, 03:43 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: They drafted an OL in the second round and two more later in the draft. It was a priority.

I would have believed that if they would have traded up to get a higher rated prospect.  Don't always believe that this was our guy all along crap.  I have a feeling they gambled and lost when they traded back, besides if they liked him so much why did they trade back and risk someone else drafting him? He also is coming out of back surgery this year, which makes him a risky pick.

[Bengalholic]

(05-03-2021, 03:53 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: I would have believed that if they would have traded up to get a higher rated prospect.  Don't always believe that this was our guy all along crap.  I have a feeling they gambled and lost when they traded back, besides if they liked him so much why did they trade back and risk someone else drafting him?  He also is coming out of back surgery this year, which makes him a risky pick.

The rumors started hours before round 2 began that the Bengals were targeting Carman, and SI was saying Carman would go higher than previously expected. I don't think there's any doubt that Carman was the guy at this point.

[CJD]

Well that's not great.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-02-2021, 10:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: No one is saying that PA wasn't a great coach in his prime, or that he isn't any good at judging talent today.  All folks are getting at is that he grew stale in the last 5 years of his tenure with the Bengals.  Several of his picks failed to develop, some of his top picks turned out to be big misses.  People joke when they refer to him as Piano Man, but being a pianist is a very respectable skill to have.  However, some of his schtick like the entire ketchup bottle test, really grew stale after a while.  One thing that stuck out to me, toward the end of his career, was a quote that he said once in the middle of the season.  It went something like "I can't work on technique in mid season, that's an offseason thing".  If it stuck out to me, I know that it must have bothered a lot of other folks, too.

I'm sure that now that the pressures of being a full time coach are past him, that his head is a lot clearer for things like talent evaluation and private coaching.  Good for him.  But, he's also a consultant for NFL radio, meaning that it's his job to pump up prospects, give the fans something to hang on every word of.  As a Bengal fan, I don't like reading that he and Mike Brown were having confidential chats about our team's current draft. as it makes me feel as if the team is going in reverse, as opposed to moving past covered ground.

Yeah....the whole Piano Man was more of an homage to Billy Joel than anything else. When I learned he was a pianist, the nickname came to me instantly as I thought of the song. Then came all the jokes about cheap Mike using him as free dinner party entertainment.

He was definitely struggling toward the end of his tenure. The rungame was struggling too in the YPC department. 

[OSUfan]

(05-03-2021, 03:39 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: There is plenty of reasons to ***** about the draft, they didn't make OL the priority.  If Burrow gets hurt this year again I will blame them.

No really there is not. How do you figure they did not make the O line a priority? I guess the answer must be because they did not use their first round selection on an O lineman?

Couple of questions for you. Prior to the draft who was the consensus #1 caliber WR for the Bengals? In this draft how many consensus #1 caliber WRs were there? 

I would certainly call 2nd round a priority. Not to mention, the firing of Turner and the return of one of the best O line coaches in the game Frank Pollack as O line coach as well as the run game coordinator. The best move that could have been made for this line....period! I might suggest that you evaluate the individual rankings of the existing Bengals O linemen under Pollack and under Turner. So the O line is not a priority? The cutting of Bobby Hart and the addition of Riley Reiff as the RT....serious upgrade. But Oh yeah the O line was not a priority.

I would suggest maybe watching some tape on the players drafted and a little less time griping about them. Jackson Carman is a very good O lineman with a lot of experience. While he may not be LT material at the NFL level but I do not doubt at all that he will be a long time quality starter at either OG or RT. He is a very athletic mountain. Phenomenal in the screen game. Gets to the second level easily and acquires the next target and engages immediately.

D'Ante Smith has the qualities that are looked for at OT that cannot be coached. He has the length, feet, and athleticism to be really good. He will need to add some bulk but has shown some strength even at 297. He is a kid that could truly excel under the tutelage of Frank Pollack. This kid has tremendous upside.

Trey Hill is yet another very experienced lineman on the interior that has a lot of football experience against high caliber competition. He could provide immediate depth at any of the interior line positions at a level that far exceeds that of last season.

The line was a priority of this offseason and was addressed as such. 

[OSUfan]

(05-03-2021, 03:53 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: I would have believed that if they would have traded up to get a higher rated prospect.  Don't always believe that this was our guy all along crap.  I have a feeling they gambled and lost when they traded back, besides if they liked him so much why did they trade back and risk someone else drafting him?  He also is coming out of back surgery this year, which makes him a risky pick.

Carman had what has become a routine procedure for professional athletes these days. Caleb Farley, that is first round draft selection, Caleb Farley has had two such procedures since 2019 and one of those was in March. The procedure and returning to play is not nearly as risky as some wish to make it out to be.

"...disc herniation is common among NFL and other elite athletes in contact sports and appears to be more common in upper level discs than the general population."


"The results suggest that most NFL players who undergo cervical spinal surgeries for CDH are able to resume their careers. Return to play, and level of performance after returning to competition, appear similar for players with upper-level versus lower-level cervical injuries."


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/10/161004111655.htm




https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=198616

[Nicomo Cosca]

Saying we didn’t prioritize the OL is nonsense.

[BengalsBong]

(05-02-2021, 09:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: From reading this SI article, seems like he at least still has his hands all over the draft.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/bengals-get-mike-browns-guy-an-inside-look-at-their-pursuit-of-jackson-carman?fbclid=IwAR2CBHW7Gm0ZMxF3eNVWr4uobVda5hYbdIJi-p4noI_v5qWKLu9h7rFh7B0

Even if it isn't "your guy". It's no secret that I've been "Team Sewell", since before it was an issue of contested contention around here. However, if the pick is Pitts, Chase, or anyone else, we're still getting an outstanding player to join our team.


I implore all Bengal fans to come together and celebrate the selection, no matter who it is. ....SunsetBengal

[SunsetBengal]

(05-03-2021, 04:44 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Even if it isn't "your guy". It's no secret that I've been "Team Sewell", since before it was an issue of contested contention around here. However, if the pick is Pitts, Chase, or anyone else, we're still getting an outstanding player to join our team.


I implore all Bengal fans to come together and celebrate the selection, no matter who it is. ....SunsetBengal

You would have a very valid point, if we were talking about the #5 selection, on the opening night of the draft.  As you can clearly see from the quote you posted, I said nothing about "celebrating every pick"..  

[*ochocincos*]

(05-03-2021, 10:12 AM)BleedNOrange Wrote: I really want to be convinced on Carman but recent stories/interviews keep challenging it.

This article is one of those.  This was Mike Brown pick.  Couple this with the interview with Pollack where he says he did not go to Clemson's pro day and never even met Carman in person.  Hobson even stated how Pollack likes to physcial get his hands on prospects but didn't in this scenario.

Willie vouching for him is the only thing giving some confidence.  On a positive side, if Carman was always "the guy", trading back and still getting him was a great move.

What concerned me a bit was Pollack saying in an interview that he did not attend Clemson's Pro Day, so he did not see Carman in person.

With that said, it's not like Mike Brown made this decision in the a vacuum.
He sought the opinions of a longtime OL coach (Paul Alexander) and arguably his second-best OL player in franchise history (Willie Anderson) on Carman, who both worked with Carman.

[AtomicBlaze]

(05-03-2021, 04:40 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Carman had what has become a routine procedure for professional athletes these days. Caleb Farley, that is first round draft selection, Caleb Farley has had two such procedures since 2019 and one of those was in March. The procedure and returning to play is not nearly as risky as some wish to make it out to be.

"...disc herniation is common among NFL and other elite athletes in contact sports and appears to be more common in upper level discs than the general population."


"The results suggest that most NFL players who undergo cervical spinal surgeries for CDH are able to resume their careers. Return to play, and level of performance after returning to competition, appear similar for players with upper-level versus lower-level cervical injuries."


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/10/161004111655.htm




https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=198616

If we had drafted Caleb Farley I would be upset as well, because it is a risk we didn't need to take.  Don't we already have enough injury concerns on the OL?

[*ochocincos*]

(05-03-2021, 04:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Saying we didn’t prioritize the OL is nonsense.

What people may interpret this as - The Bengals should have a really good OL now!

What it actually says and means - The Bengals improved a good deal from where they were

Given they were near the bottom of the barrel last year, don't be surprised or call Ben Linsey a liar if they just end up near middle of the pack.
It'd still be a big improvement, it just wouldn't be where they ultimately need to get to.

[MasonDT70]

While I was very ready for Alexander to go later in his career here, I don't see any problem with his opinion. He's obviously not an idiot and did coach up some good to great o linemen. I don't see anyone complaining about Jordan Palmer working with and talking about QB prospects. They both effectively do the same job.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-03-2021, 12:18 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The article doesn't make it clear why Mike was asking about Carman. It could've been that Duke, Zac and Frank already had him as the primary target and Mike was just getting Alexander's input since he worked with him...which seems more likely, IMO.

That may indeed have been the reality, but certainly not the feel I got from reading the article.  The team has (seemingly) went to some efforts in recent years to downplay Mike B's current role in operations.  Now, why would the team allow SI to produce an article with the appearance that the team President was looking to a former employee for draft input?  Seems to me that if it were really Duke Tobin and Frank Pollack wanting Alexander's insights, the article would have reflected such.

[bengaloo]

(05-03-2021, 03:27 PM)PDub80 Wrote: - Bengals have the best draft in football in 2020.... No one brings up Mike Brown

- Bengals have a draft in 2021 and before players can even do a mini camp.... people ***** that Mike Brown had a hand in the draft.

I swear to god, the illogical pissing and moaning that goes on with ANYTHING these days is just so perplexing to me. Welcome to 2021: The year of the 1 way street.

IMO, after a lot of research, reading, and listening, this draft is AWESOME. Just, AWESOME in every way. Everything the Bengals did made a ton of sense. Really excited for these new players and the competition they bring!

Plenty of real issues to complain about regarding the Bengals, but to already be bitching about this draft? Goofy AF.

Not true for me. I have given Mike Brown credit where credit was due at times including last years Free Agency and draft. On here it falls on def ears mostly, and has even gotten me insulted by a few fans who insisted Mike Brown was out of the process and I was stupid. 

This years draft looks good on paper for sure. We did address the positions that needed addressed. Will it translate as well as it did last year with Burrow Higgins and Wilson all playing very good ball? Outside of Chase (who is a no brainer like Burrow was), its still too early to tell that. So as much as it is goofy AF to be bitching about this draft already, its also goofy AF to be propping it up as if its a great one already. Reality is that its too early to know. I love a few of the picks we made especially on D, but I could be totally wrong about them. Hope not of course, but nothing is set in stone at this point. The potential is definitely there with this draft, but I can also understand why some fans are concerned.