(07-19-2021, 11:10 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I'm assuming this is the work of Elizabeth Blackburn. I know a lot of people on here really love what she's doing so I suppose she's doing a good job.
Me personally though, I guess I really am just a Negative Nelly, or a cynic. I just don't need stuff like this; it's too much. The "great empires", "the bold", "assert their dominance", it feels like I'm reading a pamphlet for some cheesy seminar or watching a pretentious commercial.
Just build a really good football team, and go out and win some games. It's not that complicated for me. I don't need whatever this is.
(07-19-2021, 11:10 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I'm assuming this is the work of Elizabeth Blackburn. I know a lot of people on here really love what she's doing so I suppose she's doing a good job.
Me personally though, I guess I really am just a Negative Nelly, or a cynic. I just don't need stuff like this; it's too much. The "great empires", "the bold", "assert their dominance", it feels like I'm reading a pamphlet for some cheesy seminar or watching a pretentious commercial.
Just build a really good football team, and go out and win some games. It's not that complicated for me. I don't need whatever this is.
Fwiw, this was my reaction to reading this:
You ever seen a rehab pamphlet? This fan base is in rehab.
I enjoy each and every Bengals season no matter how good or bad it is. I just like watching the games win or lose. Every year I look forward to every game. Even when the Bengals are expected to lose I look forward to the game because you never know what will happen. For me it is a hobby and I don't take it seriously. It's just a game and has no impact on my life at all. At the end of the season, no matter what happened good or bad, my life is not affected one bit and it is on to looking forward to next season. Just like the players and coaches are not affected by how I feel as a fan about the season either. Honestly, if the Bengals won the Super Bowl I'd be very happy that night. Then it would back to real life and looking forward to next season. My life would not have changed one bit aside from discussing with friends and family how cool it was they won the Super Bowl.
Marketing is great and appeals to many. But I will say this, I don't think I'll ever go to a game again. The noise, the drunks and obnoxious people, it just gets really old real fast. I can stay home, make good food in the comfort of my home while watching on my 75 inch TV which includes a great view of the game as it is produced. Nothing against people that go to the games to support my favorite team. In fact I think it is great they do so. It just isn't for me anymore.
(07-20-2021, 12:50 PM)PDub80 Wrote: To those hating on this and with a dumpy attitude....
Why have a negative disposition towards fan involvement and outreach?
Personally, I enjoy being a Bengals fan regardless if they win or lose. I love the Bengals and, as long as they stay in the area I will continue to do so.
What do we as fans personally get if the Bengals win? NOTHING. The answer is NOTHING... Unless you're a gambler and always pick the Bengals to win. In which case, you're just an idiot. Not for picking the Bengals, but for ALWAYS picking them to win. It's not going to happen.
If pride is your answer I would suggest looking in the mirror and smacking yourself in the face like Vito Corleone slaps Johnny Fontane in the Godfather. "You can act like a man". A man who has his own successes and failures to tend to and actually have influence over. A man who has his own lot in life to financially grow and relationships to be your very best in. A man who doesn't allow another man's successes or failures to get him too high or too low because those are his and yours are yours. He can deal with the ramifications. YOU don't have to sweat them. YOU SWEAT YOURS. That's how life works.
Unless they are personally related to you, as a man (or woman), why on EARTH would you gain pride by another person's accomplishments... IN PROFESSIONAL ATHLETICS? Those are THEIR accomplishments that make them millionaires. You just watched them do it. Do you cheer for a chef as he makes himself a meal that only he gets to eat? Are you sad for the chef if they burn it? Do you cheer for a hedge fund manager as he crushes out another day making six figures an hour? Are you devastated for them if they lose their fortune by making bad trades? Does any of that actually ruin your day? NO... The answer to the above is NO. But, pro athletes? THAT'S a YES?
^ Ask yourself this: Is Joe Burrow worried about you not filing your TPS reports properly? Answer: NO.... unless it directly affects his day. He is too busy working his butt off FOR HIS OWN ACCOMPLISHMENTS. He's not sweating your TPS reports to the degree it ruins his day, week, month, year.... because he has his own job to kick ass at. How's he going to do that if he's internalizing your TPS report screwups to the point it takes his eye off of what's important? Answer: He's NOT.
The Bengals are entertaining regardless of their W/L record. I still enjoy watching them. I still enjoy discussing them. I am still having exactly as much fun at the games as I do when they win as when they lose. I enjoy them on TV just the same as far as entertainment value goes. Hype them up if they win... make fun of them if they lose. It's reaaaaally that simple.
Because, if they win or lose, it matters naught. Our lives go on EXACTLY as they did before the game was played. We are not impacted for better or for worse, generally speaking. I'm a passionate fan, but that passion goes much much deeper than the surface of win/loss records. I want the Bengals to win and I enjoy when the Bengals win, but my life or happiness doesn't revolve around that. I'm a grown up with my own accomplishments and future personal successes I actually work towards.
Where are the Eagles fans attitudes at now after their SB win? Where were their attitudes a month after? They aren't any better off as a fan base when it comes to enjoying the Eagles because of a Superbowl run. My point is not that winning isn't enjoyable... It's that I cannot possibly understand how, after a long period of winning seasons and exciting games, the Bengals have to rebuild for a few years and it has people so triggered that they can't even enjoy the idea of fan outreach the Bengals are attempting. Did the letter come off as cheesy? Sure! But it was cheesy in a fun, caring way. The Bengals are turning a lot of new leaves and fan outreach is one of them. Why be upset? Fan outreach has ZERO to do with wins & losses...
Except that many of you bitching have stated you completely PASS on doing the ONE THING that you can to possibly influence the outcome of a game... ACTUALLY ATTEND THE GAMES AND CHEER/MAKE NOISE. That is such basic ***** behavior that it's insane to read. Cheap... lazy... crybabies. That is who the Bengals have turned some of you into. And it's a choice you make when instead you could listen to Vito Corleone and chose to be a man about it.
Get some damn perspective and go out to kick butt at YOUR day today and enjoy the Bengals win or lose.
1. No. Most people have ups and downs in their lives. Sports is an escape and a way to get away from the daily shit and hopefully gain some enjoyment, whether it be by rooting for a winning team or getting enjoyment from family and friends while rooting for a winning team. When the team just causes more shit, then you have to decide if you care enough or if you don't. I'd love to be able to walk away and just watch them in passing and drop them like a bad habit when they're not doing well (just like i do with the Reds), but i can't. I don't think it's too much to ask to be able to enjoy a playoff run every few decades or so.
2. No. You're not the boss of me. I'll enjoy them when they win and get pissed when they lose, because i know from experience that i won't enjoy them when they lose. That's the great thing about democracy. I can do what the hell i want as long as i'm not hurting anyone or breaking any laws.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(07-20-2021, 01:21 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I mean, this isn't true at all. I don't how anyone couldn't understand that there's plenty of things people get out of their team winning. If they truly got nothing out of then no one would watch or care.
How about satisfaction? Entertainment? Joy? Happiness?
You ever seen a fan celebration after a Superbowl, or World Series, or Stanley Cup, or NBA Finals? You ever seen fans high-fiving, or chanting, or cheering? Does that look like "nothing" to you?
Are sports not entertainment? What do you get out of a really good movie vs. a really bad movie? Is it the same? Did you get the same amount out of Paul Blart Mall Cop II as you did Goodfellas or Superbad or the Avengers or whatever it is you're into?
What do you get out of a really good album vs. a really bad album? Is it the same? Do get the same out of Ace of Base's 4th album as you do a Led Zeppelin/Stones/Floyd/Beatles album?
I really don't understand the point you're trying to make here. Fans should be happy regardless of outcome? Is that what you're actually arguing? And you're reasoning is because they're not getting paid so it doesn't matter?
Are you new to sports? Do you understand entertainment? Do you understand wanting a satisfying payoff for the time and money you commit to something?
What a weird thing to say.
It's just your run of the mill, holier-than-thou on a soapbox rant.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(07-20-2021, 03:59 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This is 20+ years behind schedule and being implemented by a member of the Brown family. That's why people are rolling their eyes at it, I'd wager.
I used to work for the Cubs during their 113 year championship drought and one year my talking points to current and prospective ticket holders was a new mascot for the kids, family activities at the stadium, and better pizza. The next year I got to tell them the Cubs hired Theo Epstein and Joe Maddon. Guess which year got people to open their wallets.
Fun is nice, but winning is more fun than fun. Then again the Cowboys haven't won crap in almost 30 years and their stadium is practically Disneyland with clubs and a mediocre football team as an added bonus.
The Bengals way has been, since MB took over, a decade late and a dollar short.
I don't have anything negative to say about what they're doing with the off-field stuff. I'm just not going to jump up and down and expect a SB appearance because of it.
I probably won't be drooling on myself over it either...but i can't guarantee the no drooling part.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(07-20-2021, 12:50 PM)PDub80 Wrote: To those hating on this and with a dumpy attitude....
Why have a negative disposition towards fan involvement and outreach?
Personally, I enjoy being a Bengals fan regardless if they win or lose. I love the Bengals and, as long as they stay in the area I will continue to do so.
What do we as fans personally get if the Bengals win? NOTHING. The answer is NOTHING... Unless you're a gambler and always pick the Bengals to win. In which case, you're just an idiot. Not for picking the Bengals, but for ALWAYS picking them to win. It's not going to happen.
If pride is your answer I would suggest looking in the mirror and smacking yourself in the face like Vito Corleone slaps Johnny Fontane in the Godfather. "You can act like a man". A man who has his own successes and failures to tend to and actually have influence over. A man who has his own lot in life to financially grow and relationships to be your very best in. A man who doesn't allow another man's successes or failures to get him too high or too low because those are his and yours are yours. He can deal with the ramifications. YOU don't have to sweat them. YOU SWEAT YOURS. That's how life works.
Unless they are personally related to you, as a man (or woman), why on EARTH would you gain pride by another person's accomplishments... IN PROFESSIONAL ATHLETICS? Those are THEIR accomplishments that make them millionaires. You just watched them do it. Do you cheer for a chef as he makes himself a meal that only he gets to eat? Are you sad for the chef if they burn it? Do you cheer for a hedge fund manager as he crushes out another day making six figures an hour? Are you devastated for them if they lose their fortune by making bad trades? Does any of that actually ruin your day? NO... The answer to the above is NO. But, pro athletes? THAT'S a YES?
^ Ask yourself this: Is Joe Burrow worried about you not filing your TPS reports properly? Answer: NO.... unless it directly affects his day. He is too busy working his butt off FOR HIS OWN ACCOMPLISHMENTS. He's not sweating your TPS reports to the degree it ruins his day, week, month, year.... because he has his own job to kick ass at. How's he going to do that if he's internalizing your TPS report screwups to the point it takes his eye off of what's important? Answer: He's NOT.
The Bengals are entertaining regardless of their W/L record. I still enjoy watching them. I still enjoy discussing them. I am still having exactly as much fun at the games as I do when they win as when they lose. I enjoy them on TV just the same as far as entertainment value goes. Hype them up if they win... make fun of them if they lose. It's reaaaaally that simple.
Because, if they win or lose, it matters naught. Our lives go on EXACTLY as they did before the game was played. We are not impacted for better or for worse, generally speaking. I'm a passionate fan, but that passion goes much much deeper than the surface of win/loss records. I want the Bengals to win and I enjoy when the Bengals win, but my life or happiness doesn't revolve around that. I'm a grown up with my own accomplishments and future personal successes I actually work towards.
Where are the Eagles fans attitudes at now after their SB win? Where were their attitudes a month after? They aren't any better off as a fan base when it comes to enjoying the Eagles because of a Superbowl run. My point is not that winning isn't enjoyable... It's that I cannot possibly understand how, after a long period of winning seasons and exciting games, the Bengals have to rebuild for a few years and it has people so triggered that they can't even enjoy the idea of fan outreach the Bengals are attempting. Did the letter come off as cheesy? Sure! But it was cheesy in a fun, caring way. The Bengals are turning a lot of new leaves and fan outreach is one of them. Why be upset? Fan outreach has ZERO to do with wins & losses...
Except that many of you bitching have stated you completely PASS on doing the ONE THING that you can to possibly influence the outcome of a game... ACTUALLY ATTEND THE GAMES AND CHEER/MAKE NOISE. That is such basic ***** behavior that it's insane to read. Cheap... lazy... crybabies. That is who the Bengals have turned some of you into. And it's a choice you make when instead you could listen to Vito Corleone and chose to be a man about it.
Get some damn perspective and go out to kick butt at YOUR day today and enjoy the Bengals win or lose.
Parts of this post made me think about this great scene from A Bronx Tale…
(07-20-2021, 12:25 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I think you hit the nail with #4. The advent of large screen HDTV's is making going to the game less attractive. Sure, it's fun for the atmosphere and all that, but when I go to a game I feel like I'm really missing something without the broadcast with replays, etc. To counter this, I go to the game and enjoy it, but then watch it at home where it is recorded. A huge screen, the availability of grilling the food you want (or ordering pizza, etc) , having friends over, drinking your own drinks, no crowds or traffic to deal with, and don't have to worry about driving home after drinking at the game. I find it much more enjoyable for regular games. Still like going to the big ones though....
One of the reasons I gave my season tickets up this year too. Nicer TV's these days and when I started buying season tickets they were only
$200 a season per seat and now they are $1,100 a seat.
Had 4 seats so it went from $800 to $4,400 per year not counting the parking, souvenirs, food, and frosty beverages which all climbed the monetary ladders as well.
Traffic is much worse these days too. Still love the Bengals but will root for free from home these days.
The water tastes funny when you're far from your home,
yet it's only the thirsty that hunger to roam. Roam the Jungle !
(07-20-2021, 06:08 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: 1. No. Most people have ups and downs in their lives. Sports is an escape and a way to get away from the daily shit and hopefully gain some enjoyment, whether it be by rooting for a winning team or getting enjoyment from family and friends while rooting for a winning team. When the team just causes more shit, then you have to decide if you care enough or if you don't. I'd love to be able to walk away and just watch them in passing and drop them like a bad habit when they're not doing well (just like i do with the Reds), but i can't. I don't think it's too much to ask to be able to enjoy a playoff run every few decades or so.
2. No. You're not the boss of me. I'll enjoy them when they win and get pissed when they lose, because i know from experience that i won't enjoy them when they lose. That's the great thing about democracy. I can do what the hell i want as long as i'm not hurting anyone or breaking any laws.
It's just like some people when they are sad want to listen to sad music.
Then there are others who would rather listen to uplifting music and try to escape that shit.
I'm not gonna piss on the team for trying to catch up with the times.
This should only be the beginning of changing a franchise that has had flaws and missteps.
We all know the real reason for skepticism.
It ain't about fan experience and fun zones.
However it is embarrassing when some douche Steelers fan tells you that the inside of PBS is similar to a parking garage in aesthetics and atmosphere... and you find yourself agreeing.
The Brown/Blackburn family needs to do something about that as well as putting a winning team on the field.
This calling people crybabies and "being a man" type stuff is just silly.
Why the hell should I care(or have affected emotions)if someone invented something, created something, or overcame an accomplishment if it wasn't me?
Rule the Jungle y'all. Wtf is wrong with the FO trying to build hype around the new team and culture they are building? We have Joe Burrow, Tee Higgins, Jamar Chase, etc, etc. Do you root for Mike Brown on Sundays or for the players you love to watch play? Because showing up at games and cheering the team on is supporting the players and other fans first and foremost. It's sad this needs pointed out, but cheering actually works. The 12th man is real. A packed stadium full of Bengal fans will in fact better our odds of winning at home. More hype and fan interaction is good especially for younger fans. It can really make the whole experience more exciting and memorable.
What would Joe Burrow's take be on this? Would he be like "well we dont need a packed house because our history of losing, it wouldnt be helpful anyway, its just marketing from the FO, blah blah debbie downer". Fk no he wouldnt think that. He would probably think more like "get off your butt and support us players every Sunday because it helps create a winning atmosphere and we want every angle we can have to win."
We all have right to our opinions and if ppl think its cheesy thats fine, but the bottom line is that cheering works. It just does. That's all.
(07-20-2021, 03:59 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Completely disagree about the Ring of Honor being a "marketing device." It's something done to show appreciation for the efforts and accomplishments of former players. It's right in the name, it's made to honor them.
I really don't think a Ring of Honor is something that's going to affect ticket sales much one way or another; nor do I think it should be done for marketing reasons. It should be something you do to honor the past, and with no motivation other than being respectful, appreciative, and frankly, just nice.
I really don't think anyone who was ever upset we didn't have one was thinking "our marketing department stinks." It's not about that at all.
Well sure it's a marketing device. It is there for fans who come to the game to see.... no one else is going to see it, except maybe a quick glimpse on tv. And every year when new names go up, it will be in front of a home crowd with a ceremony. It's an honor for the player to get up there, but make no mistake, it IS a marketing device.
(07-19-2021, 11:10 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I'm assuming this is the work of Elizabeth Blackburn. I know a lot of people on here really love what she's doing so I suppose she's doing a good job.
Me personally though, I guess I really am just a Negative Nelly, or a cynic. I just don't need stuff like this; it's too much. The "great empires", "the bold", "assert their dominance", it feels like I'm reading a pamphlet for some cheesy seminar or watching a pretentious commercial.
Just build a really good football team, and go out and win some games. It's not that complicated for me. I don't need whatever this is.
Fwiw, this was my reaction to reading this:
You mean you didn't like Marvin's "Keep Shoveling" mantra years ago? I thought that was the catalyst for our turnaround in 2005!
(07-20-2021, 06:08 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: 1. No. Most people have ups and downs in their lives. Sports is an escape and a way to get away from the daily shit and hopefully gain some enjoyment, whether it be by rooting for a winning team or getting enjoyment from family and friends while rooting for a winning team. When the team just causes more shit, then you have to decide if you care enough or if you don't. I'd love to be able to walk away and just watch them in passing and drop them like a bad habit when they're not doing well (just like i do with the Reds), but i can't. I don't think it's too much to ask to be able to enjoy a playoff run every few decades or so.
2. No. You're not the boss of me. I'll enjoy them when they win and get pissed when they lose, because i know from experience that i won't enjoy them when they lose. That's the great thing about democracy. I can do what the hell i want as long as i'm not hurting anyone or breaking any laws.
I think especially since I moved out of the area where Bengals are constantly on local TV, it's become easier to step back and just view sports as entertainment.
I don't generally find teams who lose often to be entertaining, so if I get the feeling that a team is not going to be able to realistically push for a playoff spot, I typically stop investing time and money into watching them for that season.
Zac Taylor 2019-2020: 6 total wins
Zac Taylor 2021-2022: Double-digit wins each season, plus 5 postseason wins
Zac Taylor 2023: 9 wins despite losing Burrow half the season
Zac Taylor 2024: 3-5 so far. If he can turn this into a playoff appearance, it will be impressive.
(07-21-2021, 01:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think especially since I moved out of the area where Bengals are constantly on local TV, it's become easier to step back and just view sports as entertainment.
I don't generally find teams who lose often to be entertaining, so if I get the feeling that a team is not going to be able to realistically push for a playoff spot, I typically stop investing time and money into watching them for that season.
Only problem is...without football, what is there to do in the fall/winter?
I sit here all spring and summer and read about people wanting to hurry up and get the season started and i'm like **** that, i've spent a lot of time putting a pool and bigass deck in my back yard for a nice little at home getaway. I want the damn warm/hot weather to draaaaaaaag on.
I can accept it being over right now, because it means football season is starting. Without the Bengals, i'd have to try rooting for some other team but the enjoyment (for me) just wouldn't be the same.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
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