Bates on contract situation

[GreenCornBengal]

(08-25-2021, 09:52 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I seriously doubt they’ll offer to make him the top paid safety in the league. Especially since it sounds like they’re currently pretty far apart.

And yeah, I don’t think guys like getting tagged. I could see him wanting to move on if that happens.

You kind of dodged the scenario there by saying you don’t think they will. Honestly it makes sense to delay the decision IF you’re willing to shell out a little more cash for him later. Neither of us know if they will but if that is their mindset then I think it’s a smart business move. At the end of the day it’s business and Bates is well aware of that.

Also, I think disliking getting tagged is a bit of a misconception. You get a lot of money the year you are tagged. If you believe in yourself as I assume Bates does it’s not that big of a problem. I don’t think AJ minded how much he got paid when he was tagged.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-25-2021, 09:58 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: What I'm saying is if they don't want to pay him now, they never will. They have the cash to right now, and nobody else to resign. Next year they will be getting closer to having to sign Burrow and others long-term--and Bate's value will be up higher. Now is the time, as he's only going to be more costly if they wait. Seeing as they're hesitant to pay safeties, I just don't see it happening if it doesn't happen this year.

(08-25-2021, 09:58 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: You kind of dodged the scenario there by saying you don’t think they will. Honestly it makes sense to delay the decision IF you’re willing to shell out a little more cash for him later. Neither of us know if they will but if that is their mindset then I think it’s a smart business move. At the end of the day it’s business and Bates is well aware of that.

Basically what BS9 said ^.

[GreenCornBengal]

(08-25-2021, 10:00 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Basically what BS9 said ^.

I think the real question is HOW MUCH more costly, and that is where unfortunately I’m not the expert. If you can hold off and only pay a few million more per year, is it worth it from the viewpoint of dodging a potential bullet if he gets injured in the next two years… not sure, have to weigh those options, opportunity costs and scenarios.

Either way, I think they can tag him and still get him. Curious to know what other safeties could drive up the market while we sit and wait. Again, not the expert there.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-25-2021, 10:13 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I think the real question is HOW MUCH more costly, and that is where unfortunately I’m not the expert. If you can hold off and only pay a few million more per year, is it worth it from the viewpoint of dodging a potential bullet if he gets injured in the next two years… not sure, have to weigh those options, opportunity costs and scenarios.

Either way, I think they can tag him and still get him. Curious to know what other safeties could drive up the market while we sit and wait. Again, not the expert there.

Tyrann Mathieu, Devin McCourty, Marcus Williams, Harrison Smith, and Marcus Maye are all in the final year of their contracts, and all of which currently get paid $10+ mill a year. I believe Williams and Maye were tagged.

Given there are now two players > $15 mill per year (Adams and Simmons), I would expect at least 1-2 of the guys I listed above to get that.

Bengals need to get on the ball to offer $14-15 mill a year before the price starts jumping up to $16-18 mill.

[GreenCornBengal]

(08-26-2021, 10:53 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Tyrann Mathieu, Devin McCourty, Marcus Williams, Harrison Smith, and Marcus Maye are all in the final year of their contracts, and all of which currently get paid $10+ mill a year. I believe Williams and Maye were tagged.

Given there are now two players > $15 mill per year (Adams and Simmons), I would expect at least 1-2 of the guys I listed above to get that.

Bengals need to get on the ball to offer $14-15 mill a year before the price starts jumping up to $16-18 mill.

Right but with the cap going up, is a few extra million a year an ok price to pay for the security of really knowing how elite Jessie Bates is or avoiding the risk of him potentially having a serious injury in the next 2 seasons. That’s the only logical thought process that would delay them from paying him now IMO…

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2021, 10:53 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Tyrann Mathieu, Devin McCourty, Marcus Williams, Harrison Smith, and Marcus Maye are all in the final year of their contracts

Free agent market may be flooded with safeties.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-26-2021, 11:06 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Right but with the cap going up, is a few extra million a year an ok price to pay for the security of really knowing how elite Jessie Bates is or avoiding the risk of him potentially having a serious injury in the next 2 seasons. That’s the only logical thought process that would delay them from paying him now IMO…

If that's the worry, then they should never sign any FA more than 1-2 years ever.
The reality is Bates has been active for every single game in his career, so he's not really an injury risk.
I can understand being hesitant on someone who was more injury-prone like Eifert or Lawson, but Bates is about as safe of a re-signing you could make.

[GreenCornBengal]

(08-26-2021, 11:40 AM)ochocincos Wrote: If that's the worry, then they should never sign any FA more than 1-2 years ever.
The reality is Bates has been active for every single game in his career, so he's not really an injury risk.
I can understand being hesitant on someone who was more injury-prone like Eifert or Lawson, but Bates is about as safe of a re-signing you could make.

Well no, that logic only stands because this team doesn’t have anyone else who is going to warrant tagging in the next two years from what I understand. I think the thought is “why not wait” if there is no need to use the tag elsewhere.

Again, I’m no expert in this space, so I could be misunderstanding it.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-26-2021, 01:22 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Well no, that logic only stands because this team doesn’t have anyone else who is going to warrant tagging in the next two years from what I understand. I think the thought is “why not wait” if there is no need to use the tag elsewhere.

Again, I’m no expert in this space, so I could be misunderstanding it.

They could use the tag, and it might actually save them money, but haven't the Bengals haven't really done a good job of keeping guys that they tag. Would people be ok with potentially just two years of Bates and then seeing him walk?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-26-2021, 04:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: They could use the tag, and it might actually save them money, but haven't the Bengals haven't really done a good job of keeping guys that they tag. Would people be ok with potentially just two years of Bates and then seeing him walk?

Hell no. Bates is only 24. In two years he’ll just be hitting his prime.

[GreenCornBengal]

(08-26-2021, 04:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: They could use the tag, and it might actually save them money, but haven't the Bengals haven't really done a good job of keeping guys that they tag. Would people be ok with potentially just two years of Bates and then seeing him walk?

Unless the safety market makes a monumental jump even in respect to the growing cap number, they should be able to tag him AND lock him up when they feel ready.it’s all hypotheticals at this point and I do think they should just pull the trigger now but not panicking.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-26-2021, 05:12 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Unless the safety market makes a monumental jump even in respect to the growing cap number, they should be able to tag him AND lock him up when they feel ready.it’s all hypotheticals at this point and I do think they should just pull the trigger now but not panicking.

OTC projects the safety tag to cost $13.5 mill next year.
https://overthecap.com/franchise-transition-and-rfa-tenders/


Given that the tag is the average of the five top prior year salaries for players at a position, I'd imagine it could easily jump to $15+ mill in 2023 if we start seeing a few more guys sign deals for $15+ mill a year.

[GreenCornBengal]

(08-26-2021, 05:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: OTC projects the safety tag to cost $13.5 mill next year.
https://overthecap.com/franchise-transition-and-rfa-tenders/


Given that the tag is the average of the five top prior year salaries for players at a position, I'd imagine it could easily jump to $15+ mill in 2023 if we start seeing a few more guys sign deals for $15+ mill a year.

Thanks for the numbers on this. I’m just waiting for someone to call me out for not knowing the details and making the claims I’m making lol. I certainly don’t think they should tag him any more than once (if that). Hopefully it all works out and we lock up Bates for a long long time.

[Sled21]

I'm fine with tagging him once. It's all team advantage at this point. Tag him if they can't get a deal, then work out a deal after that when the market is flooded and the price won't be so steep. I like Bates as much as anyone else, and think he is the heart of this defense, but there's no reason to throw stupid money at him. A lot of you are thinking with your emotions and not your business sense. This is a business.

[*pally*]

another safety extension...$16 million per year. We need to see the guarantee

Vikings and All-Pro Safety Harrison Smith have agreed to a 4-year, $64 million extension, per source. The deal makes Smith the second highest-paid safety in the NFL at the age of 32.

— Mike Golic Jr (@mikegolicjr) August 29, 2021

[Au165]

Yep, I think the market continues to trend upward from here with Mathieu potentially next.

[Bengalstripes9]

The longer we wait, the more we’ll pay. Lock him up yesterday.

[*pally*]

Full details on the #Vikings’ Harrison Smith deal:
— 4 years, $64M extension.
— Overall, 5 years, $74.83M
— Smith gets $22.5M in the next 8 month, highest in NFL history for a safety
— For 2022 to 2024, the new money average is $15.3M.
— The extension includes $26.38M guaranteed.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) August 29, 2021

[jfkbengals]

(08-29-2021, 04:14 PM)pally Wrote:

Full details on the #Vikings’ Harrison Smith deal:
— 4 years, $64M extension.
— Overall, 5 years, $74.83M
— Smith gets $22.5M in the next 8 month, highest in NFL history for a safety
— For 2022 to 2024, the new money average is $15.3M.
— The extension includes $26.38M guaranteed.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) August 29, 2021

From what I was just reading on PFT, Smith is now the #2 safety in terms of salary.

Offer Bates a six year extension averaging $15m a year and hope he bites.

If not, tag him twice.