(10-12-2021, 10:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Ok, maybe not "just" Pollack, but people were definitely suggesting Pollack, Reiff and Carman were enough. That suggests that Pollack is a fantastic coach, capable of getting more out of players.
Which is what JJ22 is driving at. We thought Pollack would upgrade the line, but we can't assume Pollack would've made Sewell better? Hypocrisy.
Carman is the worst player on this line. If we bench him, XSF becomes the worst player on this line. Then it's Hopkins...who is worse than he was last year, due to injury most likely. I think the only reason Nicomo is highlighting Hopkins as the worst is to avoid mentioning Carman, because Team Chase pimped him all offseason.
Team Bengals claim that Carman is like 3 games into his career. He's also coming off a surgery and changing positions. Team Bengals also concurs that Pollack is not some wizard, and there is still work to be done on the line. Finally... Team Bengals thinks Ja'Marr Chase is pretty damn good, and is bailing out a pretty lackluster offense at the moment.
(10-12-2021, 10:22 PM)jason Wrote: Team Bengals claim that Carman is like 3 games into his career. He's also coming off a surgery and changing positions. Team Bengals also concurs that Pollack is not some wizard, and there is still work to be done on the line. Finally... Team Bengals thinks Ja'Marr Chase is pretty damn good, and is bailing out a pretty lackluster offense at the moment.
Yep
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(10-12-2021, 10:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Ok, maybe not "just" Pollack, but people were definitely suggesting Pollack, Reiff and Carman were enough. That suggests that Pollack is a fantastic coach, capable of getting more out of players.
Which is what JJ22 is driving at. We thought Pollack would upgrade the line, but we can't assume Pollack would've made Sewell better? Hypocrisy.
Carman is the worst player on this line. If we bench him, XSF becomes the worst player on this line. Then it's Hopkins...who is worse than he was last year, due to injury most likely. I think the only reason Nicomo is highlighting Hopkins as the worst is to avoid mentioning Carman, because Team Chase pimped him all offseason.
“Pimped him” is a bit much. He certainly wouldn’t have been my 1st or even 2nd choice. But once we drafted him I tried to get fully behind the pick (crazy right?). I figured a top 50 pick that blocked for Trevor Lawrence on the big stage for multiple years would be able to beat out XSF. He obviously didn’t though. I underestimated how hard it would be for him to adjust to a new position. I do think he was solid his 1st couple games though, but yes, against GB he was Michael Jordan level bad. Let’s hope he can bounce back. I think there was enough positive in his other two games to be encouraged he will get there. He certainly doesn’t look like a MJ, Ogbuehi, Price, etc that you could just tell right from the start were lost causes.
(10-12-2021, 10:22 PM)jason Wrote: Team Bengals claim that Carman is like 3 games into his career. He's also coming off a surgery and changing positions. Team Bengals also concurs that Pollack is not some wizard, and there is still work to be done on the line. Finally... Team Bengals thinks Ja'Marr Chase is pretty damn good, and is bailing out a pretty lackluster offense at the moment.
1. Yea, we're all Team Bengals.
2. Sewell has only played 5 games, and you think it's ok to judge him, I guess.
3. You're missing the point on Pollack. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of people acting like Pollack is a great coach (which I think he is), but then acting like that would be no factor with Sewell.
4. Yeah, Chase is great. I love the guy, tbh. I'm planning on getting his jersey, and I haven't bought a jersey in roughly 15 years.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
We got ourselves an elite receiver in Chase. There's no question. But his HOF production the first 5 games doesn't answer the will we regret Chase question.
If Chase has an offensive rookie of the year season, as he's on pace to do, but Burrow suffers another injury, which he's on pace to do, will we regret the pick?
I think folks are quick to answer the regret question based off of Chases big play but the answer will only come from Joe's health and if he survives the season.
Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous "Let not the dumb have to educate" ~ jj22
(10-12-2021, 11:25 PM)jj22 Wrote: We got ourselves an elite receiver in Chase. There's no question. But his HOF production the first 5 games doesn't answer the will we regret Chase question.
If Chase has an offensive rookie of the year season, as he's on pace to do, but Burrow suffers another injury, which he's on pace to do, will we regret the pick?
I think folks are quick to answer the regret question based off of Chases big play but the answer will only come from Joe's health and if he survives the season.
How is one 'on pace for an injury'? The 5 guys that comprise the offensive line are not doing a terrible job of protecting Burrow. Several other guys are doing the lions share of that.
All the yelling was about the offensive line in the offseason. They addressed that and now they (the 5 offensive line guys) are doing much better.
There's absolutely no reason to regret the Chase pick because Burrow, Perine, Sample, Uzo and a couple others are the one that are causing sack "problems". The offensive line is above average on protecting Burrow by any measurable statistic.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(10-12-2021, 11:42 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: How is one 'on pace for an injury'? The 5 guys that comprise the offensive line are not doing a terrible job of protecting Burrow. Several other guys are doing the lions share of that.
All the yelling was about the offensive line in the offseason. They addressed that and now they (the 5 offensive line guys) are doing much better.
There's absolutely no reason to regret the Chase pick because Burrow, Perine, Sample, Uzo and a couple others are the one that are causing sack "problems". The offensive line is above average on protecting Burrow by any measurable statistic.
He's already been injured twice and sent to the hospital and it's only 5 games. Why is TeamChase normalizing this? Is this the new standard around here? 2 injuries, hospitalization in 5 games? There are 12 more (gulp), so yes he is on pace to be injured at this rate.
Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous "Let not the dumb have to educate" ~ jj22
(10-13-2021, 08:59 AM)jj22 Wrote: He's already been injured twice and sent to the hospital and it's only 5 games. Why is TeamChase normalizing this? Is this the new standard around here? 2 injuries, hospitalization in 5 games? There are 12 more (gulp), so yes he is on pace to be injured at this rate.
I'm sure you saw him get knocked out of the game for a bit while he was running, trying to get a first down, no?
The poke/hit in the throat likely occurred during the 4th down sneak.
Neither of those can be attributed to an oline breakdown.
He got his ankle twisted on a tackle. QBs are going to get tackled and dinged. Very, very few QBs make it through a season without getting dinged.
All the calls for more oline help were warranted. The oline was addresses--maybe not to the liking of some/many--but their performance, the 5 guys that play the offensive line positions, have played markedly better than last year. The stats show that.
"Burrow getting injured" could very well happen and it could be a result of the oline breaking down but you can't say they're nearly as much of a problem as they were last year.
At this point, the "offensive line is going to get Burrow killed" is a cry that's misdirected. Overall pass blocking may get him killed, he may get himself killed with some more runs like the one on Sunday, but the "need more oline" cries should be curtailed, based on how they are performing so far this year.
Offensive line should certainly be a priority during FA and draft next year, but they're not the sieve they were last year.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(10-13-2021, 08:59 AM)jj22 Wrote: He's already been injured twice and sent to the hospital and it's only 5 games. Why is TeamChase normalizing this? Is this the new standard around here? 2 injuries, hospitalization in 5 games? There are 12 more (gulp), so yes he is on pace to be injured at this rate.
After saying he' been injured twice already, you say he' on pace to be injured. Well, has he already been injured or is he on pace to be injured?
(10-12-2021, 10:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Ok, maybe not "just" Pollack, but people were definitely suggesting Pollack, Reiff and Carman were enough. That suggests that Pollack is a fantastic coach, capable of getting more out of players.
Which is what JJ22 is driving at. We thought Pollack would upgrade the line, but we can't assume Pollack would've made Sewell better? Hypocrisy.
Carman is the worst player on this line. If we bench him, XSF becomes the worst player on this line. Then it's Hopkins...who is worse than he was last year, due to injury most likely. I think the only reason Nicomo is highlighting Hopkins as the worst is to avoid mentioning Carman, because Team Chase pimped him all offseason.
There is nothing data wise to suggest Sewell would play better under Pollack.
There are 3 guys who are starting in the same postions they were in on opening day 2020. None of them has shown improvement, at least from a PFF grade standpoint. Jonah is .1 lower than last year, so basically a push. XSF has slid from 54 to 50 and Hopkins had plummeted from 63 to 45(though he is bouncing back from a serious knee injury if we're being fair). Reiff's grade is also down, but he's switched to RT from his natural LT position. The big upgrade was moving Spain back to his natural LG position. Which emphasizes the point that was made in the off-season that you can't just play musical chairs with the OL.
Not to mention Pollack's evaluation played a part in the decision to take Chase over Sewell. Furthermore, Pollack being oversold by some really has no bearing on whether Chase was a great pick or whether Sewell would have been a bad pick. The OL needing further upgrades this year is irrelevant because Sewell is a downgrade at this point in time, not an upgrade. Slater would be a point of reasonable discussion, but that's another reason why Sewell would have been a bad pick. Slater was also highly touted, some had him higher than Sewell, and represents a much bigger immediate upgrade (if we're arguing we didn't do enough to improve the OL).
(10-12-2021, 10:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. Yea, we're all Team Bengals.
2. Sewell has only played 5 games, and you think it's ok to judge him, I guess.
3. You're missing the point on Pollack. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of people acting like Pollack is a great coach (which I think he is), but then acting like that would be no factor with Sewell.
4. Yeah, Chase is great. I love the guy, tbh. I'm planning on getting his jersey, and I haven't bought a jersey in roughly 15 years.
I totally impulse bought a Tee Higgins jersey the other day. Knowing full well he's changing his number next year. Like you... I hadn't bought one or damn near any merchandise in years.
(10-13-2021, 11:24 AM)PhilHos Wrote: After saying he' been injured twice already, you say he' on pace to be injured. Well, has he already been injured or is he on pace to be injured?
He's on pace to have a season ending injury if this keeps up. Whoever is to blame. He's not going to make it the season at this rate.
Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous "Let not the dumb have to educate" ~ jj22
(10-13-2021, 11:29 AM)Whatever Wrote: There is nothing data wise to suggest Sewell would play better under Pollack.
There are 3 guys who are starting in the same postions they were in on opening day 2020. None of them has shown improvement, at least from a PFF grade standpoint. Jonah is .1 lower than last year, so basically a push. XSF has slid from 54 to 50 and Hopkins had plummeted from 63 to 45(though he is bouncing back from a serious knee injury if we're being fair). Reiff's grade is also down, but he's switched to RT from his natural LT position. The big upgrade was moving Spain back to his natural LG position. Which emphasizes the point that was made in the off-season that you can't just play musical chairs with the OL.
Not to mention Pollack's evaluation played a part in the decision to take Chase over Sewell. Furthermore, Pollack being oversold by some really has no bearing on whether Chase was a great pick or whether Sewell would have been a bad pick. The OL needing further upgrades this year is irrelevant because Sewell is a downgrade at this point in time, not an upgrade. Slater would be a point of reasonable discussion, but that's another reason why Sewell would have been a bad pick. Slater was also highly touted, some had him higher than Sewell, and represents a much bigger immediate upgrade (if we're arguing we didn't do enough to improve the OL).
This is interesting because there was a chart that was provided to us as proof of how he's upgraded lines and players play at every stop and how those who played under him dropped in ratings (Price) after they or he left them. But it is interesting that celebrating Sewell's struggles has forced folks to take shots at Pollack.
Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous "Let not the dumb have to educate" ~ jj22
(10-13-2021, 12:22 PM)jj22 Wrote: He's on pace to have a season ending injury if this keeps up. Whoever is to blame. He's not going to make it the season at this rate.
I don't think you understand what the phrase "on pace" means.
I'm not sure why you are focusing on a phrase after all that was said. Whatever the case may be the likeliness of him suffering a season ending injury remains high after what we've seen the first 5 weeks.
Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous "Let not the dumb have to educate" ~ jj22
(10-13-2021, 03:10 PM)jj22 Wrote: The title changed because people were triggered seeing it, but it's still a regret thread. So we are on topic.
So, faced with the stats that the offensive line has given up the 2nd fewest pressures in the NFL, Burrow almost got himself killed on the run against GB, Taylor has almost gotten him killed several times on QB sneaks, the RBs and TEs are not blocking well and Chase is probably the leading candidate for OROY, do you regret the Bengals taking Chase over Sewell or Slater and taking a 2nd rd WR?
The reason i ask is, if you take a line of Williams, Spain, Hopkins, Carman, Reiff and make it (one example),
Slater, Spain, Hopkins, Reiff, Williams, how much better are they going to be than the line that has given up the 2nd least pressures? The running game has been better, while underused and not schemed well with motion and whatnot. But you've taken away all the production that Chase has this year and replace it with...?...from a 2nd rd WR.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
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