The regression of Jessie Bates

[TecmoBengals]

(11-03-2021, 12:57 PM)Synric Wrote: PFF grades plays. Right now Bates isn't getting alot of opportunities to make tons of impact plays... mostly because the linebackers/Bell are playing way better than they did in previous years. Because of this it makes plays like Bates missed tackles more pronounced and reduces his rating.

Look at Bates Passes Defensed last season alot of them were coming downhill disrupting plays over the middle by either big hits or getting his hands on them. This year the linebackers are playing alot better in coverage which shrinks that window for QBs to throw into in those zones forcing them to look elsewhere.

I appreciate the reply. Forums like this are good for learning. 

[Tony]

I think he is pissed about not getting a contract.. It might be in his head mentally, and / or He doesn't want to get hurt...

[J24]

(11-03-2021, 12:25 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Bates is 4th or even 5th on my priority re-signing list. And I hate that a lot of fans are doing the "Mike Brown MUST pay Bates" crap. Reiff is gonna need a new deal, Hendrickson, if Hilton or Awuzie are on 1 year contracts, they need to be signed. I put all these guys ahead of Bates

Awuzie , Hendrickson, and Hilton all signed long term deals here last season. Also the Bengals are going to roughly have 64 million in cap space + they can save around 20 million not they cut Waynes, Hopkins, and Xaiver fulia. So there should be enough cap space to sign all three of Spain, Bates, and Rieff innthe off season.

[Whatever]

(11-03-2021, 12:57 PM)Synric Wrote: PFF grades plays. Right now Bates isn't getting alot of opportunities to make tons of impact plays... mostly because the linebackers/Bell are playing way better than they did in previous years. Because of this it makes plays like Bates missed tackles more pronounced and reduces his rating.

Look at Bates Passes Defensed last season alot of them were coming downhill disrupting plays over the middle by either big hits or getting his hands on them. This year the linebackers are playing alot better in coverage which shrinks that window for QBs to throw into in those zones forcing them to look elsewhere.

Bates is grading better as a tackler this year than last year, though.  In fact, his Tackling grade is better than his Run and Pass Defense, currently.  

[*ochocincos*]

I gotta say, I find responses to PFF posts so bipolar.

When it supports a player that people like, people love it.
When it counters a player that people like, some people bash it.

For example:
Joe Burrow is rated 6th highest QB with an overall score of 87.1.
On the flip side, Jessie Bates is rated 49th safety with an overall score of 61.4.

I'll say this for why I often trust PFF...
They pay people to watch every single play and analyze WAY more than 95% of fans do.

A vast majority of fans are only watching the game when it happens, not going back and rewatching snaps focusing on a specific player.
During a game, they are most often focused on who has the ball and the player(s) around the ball.

Sure, PFF hypothesizes what an assignment is and they may not be 100% right every time, but for the most part I feel they have accurately identified good performance and poor performance.

[XenoMorph]

(11-03-2021, 02:56 PM)J24 Wrote: Awuzie , Hendrickson, and Hilton all signed long term deals here last season. Also the Bengals are going to roughly have 64 million in cap space + they can save around 20 million not they cut Waynes, Hopkins, and Xaiver fulia. So there should be enough cap space to sign all three of Spain, Bates, and Rieff innthe off season.

should be looking for a long term solution at RT over Rieff imo

[TecmoBengals]

(11-03-2021, 03:34 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I gotta say, I find responses to PFF posts so bipolar.

When it supports a player that people like, people love it.
When it counters a player that people like, some people bash it.

I'm trying to understand it when it comes to Bates, the eye test doesn't tell me he sucks at football.

[Frank Booth]

(11-03-2021, 04:39 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: should be looking for a long term solution at RT over Rieff imo

I agree. But I still think he is a must sign

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-03-2021, 04:54 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I agree. But I still think he is a must sign

Yes. Do both. Re-sign Reiff another year, and either develop D’Ante Smith, or draft another potential RT, but there’s no need to start a rookie or someone who’s not ready yet when Reiff is a good option. There’s no rush if we bring him back.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-03-2021, 04:51 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I'm trying to understand it when it comes to Bates, the eye test doesn't tell me he sucks at football.

To be fair, a 60-69 PFF rating doesn't mean "suck," it means average starter.
70-79 is above average.
80+ is elite.

In the case of Bates, as Synric pointed out, he's not able to make as many impactful plays compared to last year because of the improvement of guys up front, so any problems he has shown on the field have been magnified.

[Shake n Blake]

I remember when people were really concerned about losing Shawn Williams or George Iloka. How did that turn out?

[XenoMorph]

(11-03-2021, 05:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I remember when people were really concerned about losing Shawn Williams or George Iloka. How did that turn out?

Bring back Taylor Mays!!!!!!!!     



lol

[J24]

(11-03-2021, 05:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I remember when people were really concerned about losing Shawn Williams or George Iloka. How did that turn out?

Are you serious? Bates is a lot better than those two ever were.

[J24]

(11-03-2021, 04:39 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: should be looking for a long term solution at RT over Rieff imo

Define long term? I think Rieff will be a good player for us for the next 2-3 seasons + we have young players that the organization likes as backups.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-03-2021, 05:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I remember when people were really concerned about losing Shawn Williams or George Iloka. How did that turn out?

...I liked Williams and especially Iloka.
I'm honestly surprised neither are playing on a team this year.
Iloka I thought had enough coverage ability and great size to transition to coverage LB as he got older.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-03-2021, 05:22 PM)J24 Wrote: Define long term? I think Rieff will be a good player for us for the next 2-3 seasons + we have young players that the organization likes as backups.

I think the Bengals have some decent backups, but I don't think any will get to the level of being a solid starter.
The one who has the best chance is probably Smith, but we haven't seen enough of him to give that confidence yet.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-03-2021, 05:20 PM)J24 Wrote: Are you serious? Bates is a lot better than those two ever were.

Easy to say that now, but there was a time when both were highly regarded around here. Which is my point.

...and Bates has mostly graded out as a slightly above average safety other than last year. Is that really that much better than those 2? Idk.

[J24]

(11-03-2021, 05:35 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Easy to say that now, but there was a time when both were highly regarded around here. Which is my point.

...and Bates has mostly graded out as a slightly above average safety other than last year. Is that really that much better than those 2? Idk.

Shake he was a top 10 safety (or close to it) his rookie season and he was a top 12 safety in the 2nd half of the 2019 season. Outside of a bad start to the 2019  season the guy has been excellent during his time here. Neither Williams or Iloka could claim that.

PFF grades
2018- 79.9
2019(2nd half)75.5
2020-90.1

[J24]

(11-03-2021, 05:31 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think the Bengals have some decent backups, but I don't think any will get to the level of being a solid starter.
The one who has the best chance is probably Smith, but we haven't seen enough of him to give that confidence yet.

What I'm saying is I think Rieff will be a good player for us for the next couple of seasons and we won't need to draft his replacement this upcoming draft because of it.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-03-2021, 05:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I remember when people were really concerned about losing Shawn Williams or George Iloka. How did that turn out?

George Iloka was a dummy. Broke his hand punching his own teammates helmet and let countless interceptions go by while he was concerned about making the hit.