This Offensive Line is still ASS

[*jason*]

(11-08-2021, 10:38 PM)Benton Wrote: I understand the logic, but it's wrong.

Our line is crap. Our TEs aren't bad. If we go into the draft all 'bpa or bust' and take a TE, were ****ing dumb. 

If it's your turn on the board and you don't have a need slotted there, trade out.  But just taking bpa pick after pick year after year, you're going to end up overloaded at some spots and barren at others. That's how we got to where we are now: set at skills positions, barren in the trenches.

We need a line. We're at least two seasons away from it. If we keep drafting guys like carman, longer.

If we take a skill player in 2022 because it's the bpa, were going to keep going down this road of 'wait, why are we stinking, we've got all these elite guys!?'

I really don't think there are as many elite skill position players on this team as some of us seem to think. We maybe have one elite player on each side of the ball.

[*Go Cards*]

Once saw this team release Whitworth and Zeitler and then go draft what they called the BPA in John Ross.

Fix your problems first imo. If the player you covet doesn't have the value to support drafting said player at that draft spot then trade it away for extra picks.

Believe QB is the only exception.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-08-2021, 11:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Maybe we finally get lucky and hit on a Wirfs or Slater type, but with this team’s recent history of drafting OL I wouldn’t count on it.

Good point. Cedric Ogbuehi, Jake Fisher, Billy Price, and Jonah Williams were all highly considered in college and projected to go early in the years they were drafted. Jonah Williams is serviceable but he’s no Andrew Whitworth, Billy Price had some good games but never got consistent, Jake Fisher never panned out and Cedric Ogbuehi didn’t seem to adjust to the NFL.

Now we’re back to square one with the offensive line again. The line IS better but it’s not playoff caliber; not even close. I’m not even sure having Penei Sewell would help at this point because he’s just one guy. He’s going to be great in the future but the Bengals needed offensive line help RIGHT NOW.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-08-2021, 11:06 PM)jason Wrote: I really don't think there are as many elite skill position players on this team as some of us seem to think. We maybe have one elite player on each side of the ball.

Chase and Mixon on offense (Burrow will be).

Reader on defense. Kind of sucks our only elite player on D is a NT though. I like Hendrickson, but I wouldn’t quite put him in that category.

[*bfine32*]

I know it's en vogue to crap on the online given the last 2 weeks, but I found it promising when the line went after Clowney and Crew after the questionable hit on Burrow. It shows a mentality of "Our job is to protect this guy".

I don't think we need to blow it up. Upgrade C and RT and I'll be happy. Don't mess with the left side.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-08-2021, 01:46 PM)J24 Wrote: The offensive Line played well in the first half but then the second half happened and everything turned to shit. Having to just pass the ball might have had embellished the problem.

Yeah, being behind after all of the turnovers exacerbated the problems on oline....they knew we were passing and their Dline is miles better than our oline.

[*jason*]

(11-08-2021, 11:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I know it's en vogue to crap on the online given the last 2 weeks, but I found it promising when the line went after Clowney and Crew after the questionable hit on Burrow. It shows a mentality of "Our job is to protect this guy".

I don't think we need to blow it up. Upgrade C and RT and I'll be happy. Don't mess with the left side.

Me too... It was a stark contrast to all 5 of them chilling on the bench when the Dolphins (including their HC) were on our sideline causing a ruckus last year.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-08-2021, 11:12 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Good point. Cedric Ogbuehi, Jake Fisher, Billy Price, and Jonah Williams were all highly considered in college and projected to go early in the years they were drafted. Jonah Williams is serviceable but he’s no Andrew Whitworth, Billy Price had some good games but never got consistent, Jake Fisher never panned out and Cedric Ogbuehi didn’t seem to adjust to the NFL.

Now we’re back to square one with the offensive line again. The line IS better but it’s not playoff caliber; not even close. I’m not even sure having Penei Sewell would help at this point because he’s just one guy. He’s going to be great in the future but the Bengals needed offensive line help RIGHT NOW.

It feels really wrong to lump Jonah in with that group of bums. No he’s not Whit (a likely future HoFer mind you), but he’s a good player. And Whit took a little while to reach his full potential anyway. Jonah is currently grading out at 72.2, which is in the above average range.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-08-2021, 11:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I know it's en vogue to crap on the online given the last 2 weeks, but I found it promising when the line went after Clowney and Crew after the questionable hit on Burrow. It shows a mentality of "Our job is to protect this guy".

I don't think we need to blow it up. Upgrade C and RT and I'll be happy. Don't mess with the left side.

You wouldn’t be down to re-sign Reiff at RT for another year or two? Center I’d like to see addressed no matter what. Whether it be in the draft or FA (kinda slim pickings this year though). The big question mark for me (if we bring Spain and Reiff back) is RG. Do we go into next season with Carman penciled in as the starter? It would have been a tough enough question with just his up and down play - - let alone a potential lingering back issue now.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-08-2021, 11:22 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Yeah, being behind after all of the turnovers exacerbated the problems on oline....they knew we were passing and their Dline is miles better than our oline.

They were literally able to just tee off on us in the 2nd.

Seeing a lot of "Bengals, pass blocking, bad" on the TL. Lets clarify for folks that want to ignore game script:

1st Half:
78.3 pass block grade
0 sacks, 5 pressures
17.9% pressure rate

2nd Half:
43.8 pass block grade
1 sack, 10 pressures
50.0% pressure rate

— Andrew Russell (@PFF_AndrewR) November 8, 2021

[Benton]

(11-08-2021, 11:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes were..


I've always been in the school of BPA in a position of need. We need about everything but QB and RB

Meh, phone typo. '

But that's what it boils down to: BPA in need. If your need is well out of where you're picking, trade out.

If your only need is a kicker and you're picking top 10... trade down. If you're primary need is a QB and you're picking bottom 10... trade up.

(11-08-2021, 11:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t necessarily want to see them go for a TE in the 1st round by any means (and they won’t so it’s kind of moot), but if they sign several nice upgrades for the OL in FA they can draft whatever position they want with that pick. And like I said, I actually hope we go Center if a good one is there, but I don’t want to settle for our 2nd or 3rd choice at the position out of  sheer desperation either.

And with FA’s you’re getting proven players that can help immediately. Very few offensive lineman come into the league and play at a high level right away. We’ve certainly seen some of the top guys struggle early on. Maybe we finally get lucky and hit on a Wirfs or Slater type, but with this teams recent history of drafting OL I wouldn’t count on it.

To the bold, meh, it's an example. And if we're strictly BPA, a TE might be the pick. Hell, there was a fair amount of division a year ago when lots believed a TE was the BPA.

But to the rest, it's not likely to happen. We need, at a minimum, to resign two starters and sign, at a minimum, two upgrades on the line. That's four sizable FA just to get us to where we are (which is pretty crappy). Then you've got depth. I don't see us signing 4-5 starter worthy linemen.

We've gone the FA route before with linemen. The results ain't great. True, they aren't great with drafting either, but -- personal opinion-- we've had more luck drafting long-term solid OL than we have shopping. Anderson, Zeitler, Whit, Braham, even Tons o Fun Smith.

This team needs an OL. Trade for picks. Move up. Move down. I don't really care. Just identify some decent OL and go after them. Just drafting skills positions and hoping late round line picks work out isn't working out.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-08-2021, 11:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You wouldn’t be down to re-sign Reiff at RT for another year or two? Center I’d like to see addressed no matter what. Whether it be in the draft or FA (kinda slim pickings this year though). The big question mark for me (if we bring Spain and Reiff back) is RG. Do we go into next season with Carman penciled in as the starter? It would have been a tough enough question with just his up and down play - - let alone a potential lingering back issue now.

Can't speak for b, but this is how I see it too. Reiff is good enough, RG has been doo doo, and so has Hop. Spain should be re-signed (that's more than once I've seen Spain sticking up for his QB), I think Jonah will continue to improve. 

This thing with Carman had me concerned the moment I learned he had disc problems. Yeah, I'm in my 40s now, but the last time I had a flare up, I was on crutches for a week because I couldn't stand that much pressure on my spine from standing/walking. It all started in my 20s. Contrary to what some on here tried to reassure me of, it's not something that gets better when you're a bigger person. He's A LOT bigger than me, obviously. It's a legit concern.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-08-2021, 11:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: They were literally able to just tee off on us in the 2nd.

Seeing a lot of "Bengals, pass blocking, bad" on the TL. Lets clarify for folks that want to ignore game script:

1st Half:
78.3 pass block grade
0 sacks, 5 pressures
17.9% pressure rate

2nd Half:
43.8 pass block grade
1 sack, 10 pressures
50.0% pressure rate

— Andrew Russell (@PFF_AndrewR) November 8, 2021

Yes, we had to play one dimensional "catch up ball" and it showed. Big time. We're not good enough up front to face a team like Cleveland when they know we gotta throw. 

[*bfine32*]

(11-08-2021, 11:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You wouldn’t be down to re-sign Reiff at RT for another year or two? Center I’d like to see addressed no matter what. Whether it be in the draft or FA (kinda slim pickings this year though). The big question mark for me (if we bring Spain and Reiff back) is RG. Do we go into next season with Carman penciled in as the starter? It would have been a tough enough question with just his up and down play - - let alone a potential lingering back issue now.

Carman's just a baby and they're asking him to go from LT ot RG. I think he'll bfine at RG; he has the build and athleticism. 

Riley is serviceable, but I'd like him as "first off the bench"

Of course a lot of this is swayed by my man crush on Kinnard. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-08-2021, 11:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Carman's just a baby and they're asking him to go from LT ot RG. I think he'll bfine at RG; he has the build and athleticism. 

Riley is serviceable, but I'd like him as "first off the bench"

Of course a lot of this is swayed by my man crush on Kinnard. 

If Riley is our "swing guy" next year, we're in damn fine shape. I've seen flashes from Carman, it's the back issue that concerns me most.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-08-2021, 11:36 PM)Benton Wrote: We've gone the FA route before with linemen. The results ain't great. True, they aren't great with drafting either, but -- personal opinion-- we've had more luck drafting long-term solid OL than we have shopping. Anderson, Zeitler, Whit, Braham, even Tons o Fun Smith.

We didn’t draft Rich Braham.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-08-2021, 11:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We didn’t draft Rich Braham.

We hit on a lot of oline picks there for a while, then it went to shit after Og/Fish. Hopefully Jonah continues to improve, and Carman can stay healthy and develop into a good OG. I mean, bad back and new position, he's still better than Og and Billy Price.

[Benton]

(11-08-2021, 11:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We didn’t draft Rich Braham.

Ok. We claimed Braham off waivers.

We still stink at getting linemen through FA, but, yeah, we got Braham off waivers.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-09-2021, 12:03 AM)Benton Wrote: Ok. We claimed Braham off waivers.

We still stink at getting linemen through FA, but, yeah, we got Braham off waivers.

Bobbie Williams was a good one.

But honestly we’ve historically sucked at getting any positions through FA. It’s just never been their forte unfortunately. That has changed under Taylor though.

[Benton]

(11-09-2021, 02:32 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: But honestly we’ve historically sucked at getting any positions through FA. 

Which is also a good point.

I feel like we do ok at signing depth in fa, but not so much starters.