Props to Zac Taylor for Play Calling

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Yes, I’m serious.

Yesterday against the Raiders I was very impressed by how Zac Taylor called plays, especially late in the game. At first Joe Mixon had issues running the ball and Joe Burrow didn’t get time to set his feet and pass accurately — but Zac stuck with the run. After 29 passes and 38 rushes the Bengals won, 32-13. Joe Mixon went over 100 yards on the ground alone which was impressive.

The old Zac would have kept passing. It looks like he’s learning!

[*ochocincos*]

(11-22-2021, 02:28 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Yes, I’m serious.

Yesterday against the Raiders I was very impressed by how Zac Taylor called plays, especially late in the game.  At first Joe Mixon had issues running the ball and Joe Burrow didn’t get time to set his feet and pass accurately — but Zac stuck with the run.  After 29 passes and 38 rushes the Bengals won, 32-13.  Joe Mixon went over 100 yards on the ground alone which was impressive.

The old Zac would have kept passing.  It looks like he’s learning!

Isn't Frank Pollack the one calling the run plays?
I thought he was.

[KillerGoose]

(11-22-2021, 02:28 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Yes, I’m serious.

Yesterday against the Raiders I was very impressed by how Zac Taylor called plays, especially late in the game.  At first Joe Mixon had issues running the ball and Joe Burrow didn’t get time to set his feet and pass accurately — but Zac stuck with the run.  After 29 passes and 38 rushes the Bengals won, 32-13.  Joe Mixon went over 100 yards on the ground alone which was impressive.

The old Zac would have kept passing.  It looks like he’s learning!

That kind of run/pass discrepancy isn't going to consistently win you games, especially not with the personnel Cincinnati has. I'm curious if the field was a major factor in the passing game yesterday. Cincinnati needs to be passing more than they run, but there also needs to be some semblance of balance. A 55-45 split, or even 60-40 split in favor of passing would be ideal (which is roughly what Cincinnati has been doing all season). They could probably up that slightly, closer to 60 and be completely fine. 

38 runs at 4.1 a pop isn't very good. It got the job done yesterday, but sticking with the run when it isn't working isn't what you're supposed to be doing. If you don't have the front you want, check out of that run and throw the ball. Running into a brick wall front does nothing for you. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-22-2021, 02:35 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: That kind of run/pass discrepancy isn't going to consistently win you games, especially not with the personnel Cincinnati has. I'm curious if the field was a major factor in the passing game yesterday. Cincinnati needs to be passing more than they run, but there also needs to be some semblance of balance. A 55-45 split, or even 60-40 split in favor of passing would be ideal (which is roughly what Cincinnati has been doing all season). They could probably up that slightly, closer to 60 and be completely fine. 

38 runs at 4.1 a pop isn't very good. It got the job done yesterday, but sticking with the run when it isn't working isn't what you're supposed to be doing. If you don't have the front you want, check out of that run and throw the ball. Running into a brick wall front does nothing for you. 

You have to keep the D honest even if it isn't working. Teams have to fear the running game to open up the pass.

BTW, we don't know who is calling the plays, sometimes it looks like it is Callahan, sometimes Zac and on runs it can be Pollack
or the analytics dude. We don't know who to give props to honestly. Think they all work together including Burrow.

[GreenCornBengal]

(11-22-2021, 02:35 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: 38 runs at 4.1 a pop isn't very good. It got the job done yesterday, but sticking with the run when it isn't working isn't what you're supposed to be doing. If you don't have the front you want, check out of that run and throw the ball. Running into a brick wall front does nothing for you. 

I guess I’m an idiot, how is 4.1 YPC not very good? Sticking with the run is what kept the Bengals in control and sealed the game… funny how fan perspectives differ.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-22-2021, 02:42 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I guess I’m an idiot, how is 4.1 YPC not very good? Sticking with the run is what kept the Bengals in control and sealed the game… funny how fan perspectives differ.

Plus it kept Burrow alive. We weren't pass blocking very good for him.

[KillerGoose]

(11-22-2021, 02:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You have to keep the D honest even if it isn't working. Teams have to fear the running game to open up the pass.

BTW, we don't know who is calling the plays, sometimes it looks like it is Callahan, sometimes Zac and on runs it can be Pollack
or the analytics dude. We don't know who to give props to honestly. Think they all work together including Burrow.

The run opening up the pass is conventional logic that doesn’t really hold true. There is no correlation between run game success and passing game success. I’m not saying go balls to the walls and throw ever play because that doesn’t work, either. You’ll just let defenses pin their ears back on you.

You do, generally, want to be passing more than you run because passing is objectively better. Especially when you have a stinky run game (Bengals) and an elite passing game (Bengals).

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-22-2021, 02:45 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The run opening up the pass is conventional logic that doesn’t really hold true. There is no correlation between run game success and passing game success. I’m not saying go balls to the walls and throw ever play because that doesn’t work, either. You’ll just let defenses pin their ears back on you.

You do, generally, want to be passing more than you run because passing is objectively better. Especially when you have a stinky run game (Bengals) and an elite passing game (Bengals).

But more bad things can go wrong when you pass more than run. It is a good argument but I think my logic holds true.

I know Burrow loves his empty sets but that is when he gets hit the most.

[KillerGoose]

(11-22-2021, 02:42 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I guess I’m an idiot, how is 4.1 YPC not very good? Sticking with the run is what kept the Bengals in control and sealed the game… funny how fan perspectives differ.

The efficiency isn’t there at 4.1 YPC. This year, if a team is averaging 4.1 YPC they are the 21st ranked rushing offense. It’s a volume thing. Yes, Mixon had 123 yards and that sounds great. However, he also had 30 carries. I would sure as hell hope he had 120+ yards, otherwise he was just running a lot and not doing much with it (the offensive line share blame here, too).

It worked yesterday, but what I’m saying is that this kind of run/pass discrepancy shouldn’t be applauded as “good, he is learning”. You don’t want to be passing 42% of the time and you don’t want to just keep running, even when it isn’t working. The Bengals ran into some bad fronts yesterday and could’ve benefitted from checking into a pass.

[KillerGoose]

(11-22-2021, 02:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: But more bad things can go wrong when you pass more than run. It is a good argument but I think my logic holds true.

I know Burrow loves his empty sets but that is when he gets hit the most.

It depends on what you mean by ‘bad’. More good things can also happen, and they will happen at a much higher rate than a run. You’re going to score significantly more points with a good passing game than you will with a good running game.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-22-2021, 02:51 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: It depends on what you mean by ‘bad’. More good things can also happen, and they will happen at a much higher rate than a run. You’re going to score significantly more points with a good passing game than you will with a good running game.

Well, interceptions are what I mean by bad but yes, I agree overall.

[Mer]

So we win coming off the bye week and now we're going to complain we ran the ball too much? Seriously!?

WE WON!!!! That's all that matters.

[GreenCornBengal]

(11-22-2021, 02:50 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The efficiency isn’t there at 4.1 YPC. This year, if a team is averaging 4.1 YPC they are the 21st ranked rushing offense. It’s a volume thing. Yes, Mixon had 123 yards and that sounds great. However, he also had 30 carries. I would sure as hell hope he had 120+ yards, otherwise he was just running a lot and not doing much with it (the offensive line share blame here, too).

It worked yesterday, but what I’m saying is that this kind of run/pass discrepancy shouldn’t be applauded as “good, he is learning”. You don’t want to be passing 42% of the time and you don’t want to just keep running, even when it isn’t working. The Bengals ran into some bad fronts yesterday and could’ve benefitted from checking into a pass.

Well yes but it helped with the time of possession which ultimately won us that game.. their defense was gassed and the consistent run game was the reason why. I get that overall 4.1 isn’t something to brag about, but it was the right game plan for yesterday. They’ll throw more when the time comes but the “break the dam” game plan seemed to be the right choice… final score being the main evidence of that…

[*ochocincos*]

(11-22-2021, 02:42 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I guess I’m an idiot, how is 4.1 YPC not very good? Sticking with the run is what kept the Bengals in control and sealed the game… funny how fan perspectives differ.

I've always thought anything 4.0 and above was good, but when you look at today's RBs, the top RB in YPC is Chubb at 6.0.
There are 10 qualifying RBs with 5.0 or better. 
Mixon is 26th best qualified rusher (24th if you remove Jackson and Hurts) in YPC at 4.2.

Mixon is still 4th highest in rushing yards and 4th highest in rushing attempts though.
So he's leaned on a lot and is coming through when needed.

[KillerGoose]

(11-22-2021, 02:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well, interceptions are what I mean by bad but yes, I agree overall.

Interceptions are bad obviously but you’re generally offsetting them by producing more TDs and higher yardage counts. At least, in a good passing offense. It’s the reason why the vast majority of the league is passing more than they run, some SIGNIFICANTLY more.

[Stewy]

(11-22-2021, 02:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Isn't Frank Pollack the one calling the run plays?
I thought he was.

He's the run game coordinator.  He doesn't call run plays....he builds the scheme.

[KillerGoose]

(11-22-2021, 03:01 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Well yes but it helped with the time of possession which ultimately won us that game.. their defense was gassed and the consistent run game was the reason why. I get that overall 4.1 isn’t something to brag about, but it was the right game plan for yesterday. They’ll throw more when the time comes but the “break the dam” game plan seemed to be the right choice… final score being the main evidence of that…

Oh, I agree. I’m not necessarily saying Zac called a bad game yesterday. I’m mainly focusing on the “he’s learning” aspect of the post. You don’t stick with something that isn’t working, and it wasn’t working for quite a while. Cincinnati has the weapons to be a lethal passing team, and they are. Zac’s pass/run split has been great all season.

[KillerGoose]

(11-22-2021, 03:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I've always thought anything 4.0 and above was good, but when you look at today's RBs, the top RB in YPC is Chubb at 6.0.
There are 10 qualifying RBs with 5.0 or better. 
Mixon is 26th best qualified rusher (24th if you remove Jackson and Hurts) in YPC at 4.2.

Mixon is still 4th highest in rushing yards and 4th highest in rushing attempts though.
So he's leaned on a lot and is coming through when needed.

Yeah, that’s part of the argument. Mixon has a lot of yards….because he runs the ball a lot. It’s the same with Henry this season. He was on pace for over 2,000 yards again, which seems nuts….until you realize he was also on pace for 465 carries, beating the single season record comfortably.

[KillerGoose]

(11-22-2021, 03:00 PM)Mer Wrote: So we win coming off the bye week and now we're going to complain we ran the ball too much? Seriously!?

WE WON!!!! That's all that matters.

I’m not complaining, I’m just discussing. I’m thrilled Cincinnati won, but talking the numbers is enjoyable to me.

[Luvnit2]

(11-22-2021, 02:28 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Yes, I’m serious.

Yesterday against the Raiders I was very impressed by how Zac Taylor called plays, especially late in the game.  At first Joe Mixon had issues running the ball and Joe Burrow didn’t get time to set his feet and pass accurately — but Zac stuck with the run.  After 29 passes and 38 rushes the Bengals won, 32-13.  Joe Mixon went over 100 yards on the ground alone which was impressive.

The old Zac would have kept passing.  It looks like he’s learning!

I agree, he had a game plan that was being blown up early in the game, could't run and Joe was getting hit often.

The game plan depends upon the team you play, Raiders are very bad against the run. Burrow stated after game if DC Bradley gets you in 3rd and long they unleash a fierce pass rush.

Great job ZT and great job entire team for executing the plan.