#1 overall QBs and playoff wins

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I decided to look back at all of the quarterbacks taken #1 overall (exception for Rivers since he was in a weird spot) since 2000 to see how their postseason careers went/have gone.

2001 - Michael Vick - 2 playoff wins (2-4), first coming in his 2nd season
2002 - David Carr - never made the playoffs
2003 - Carson Palmer - 1 playoff win (1-3), coming in his 13th season for a different franchise
2004 - Eli Manning - 8 playoff wins (8-4, 2-0 in Super Bowl), first coming in his 4th season ||| Philip Rivers - 5 playoff wins (5-7), first coming in 4th season
2005 - Alex Smith - 2 playoff wins (2-5), first coming in his 7th season
2007 - JaMarcus Russell - never made the playoffs
2009 - Matt Stafford - 0 playoff wins (0-3)
2010 - Sam Bradford - never made the playoffs
2011 - Cam Newton - 3 playoff wins (3-4; 0-1 in Super Bowl), first coming in 4th season
2012 - Andrew Luck - 4 playoff wins (4-4), first in 2nd season
2015 - Jameis Winston - never made the playoffs as a starter
2016 - Jared Goff - 3 playoff wins (3-3; 0-1 in Super Bowl), first coming in 3rd season
2018 - Baker Mayfield - 1 playoff win (1-1), coming in 3rd season
2019 - Kyler Murray - first playoff game tomorrow
2020 - Joe Burrow - 1 playoff win (1-0), first coming in 2nd season
2021 - Trevor Lawrence - never made the playoffs

I didn't know how this would look ahead of time. There are a lot more playoff wins overall than I expected, so perhaps that's a nice general reflection on the institution of number one overall QBs. Only two others were able to get a playoff win as quickly as Joe Burrow though (both bolded). Technically Trevor Lawrence still can.

I'm not suggesting this is a particularly meaningful review, but it interested me. At the very least we're off to a great start. Burrow has already matched Palmer and Dalton combined in playoff wins.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

Mind you Vick admitted himself that he didn’t try to improve himself towards the beginning of his career and obviously missed time to play because of the dog fighting scandal.

Luck very well might have had a lot more success if he didn’t retire. Imagine the Colts teams these last 2 years with a healthy Andrew luck.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

Also interestingly while there is some success I see more bad than good with these guys.

[Murdock2420]

(01-17-2022, 02:30 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Also interestingly while there is some success I see more bad than good with these guys.

Think it shows that no matter how talented a draft pick is, they can't win it all without a supporting cast.

The Bengals are trying to build a full team, especially on the defense with the activity in free agency. Seeing Palmer is so frustrating, if the team had been this active in FA with Palmer and Chad and TJ, I don't think it takes 30 years but hey, at least that streak is gone.

[magikod]

(01-17-2022, 02:45 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Think it shows that no matter how talented a draft pick is, they can't win it all without a supporting cast.

The Bengals are trying to build a full team, especially on the defense with the activity in free agency. Seeing Palmer is so frustrating, if the team had been this active in FA with Palmer and Chad and TJ, I don't think it takes 30 years but hey, at least that streak is gone.

True.

Remember when you are drafted #1 overall, you are going to the worst team that year (usually unless another team trades, usually losing quite a bit of draft capitol along the way.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-17-2022, 02:24 AM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: I decided to look back at all of the quarterbacks taken #1 overall (exception for Rivers since he was in a weird spot) since 2000 to see how their postseason careers went/have gone.

2001 - Michael Vick - 2 playoff wins (2-4), first coming in his 2nd season
2002 - David Carr - never made the playoffs
2003 - Carson Palmer - 1 playoff win (1-3), coming in his 13th season for a different franchise
2004 - Eli Manning - 8 playoff wins (8-4, 2-0 in Super Bowl), first coming in his 4th season ||| Philip Rivers - 5 playoff wins (5-7), first coming in 4th season
2005 - Alex Smith - 2 playoff wins (2-5), first coming in his 7th season
2007 - JaMarcus Russell - never made the playoffs
2009 - Matt Stafford - 0 playoff wins (0-3)
2010 - Sam Bradford - never made the playoffs
2011 - Cam Newton - 3 playoff wins (3-4; 0-1 in Super Bowl), first coming in 4th season
2012 - Andrew Luck - 4 playoff wins (4-4), first in 2nd season
2015 - Jameis Winston - never made the playoffs as a starter
2016 - Jared Goff - 3 playoff wins (3-3; 0-1 in Super Bowl), first coming in 3rd season
2018 - Baker Mayfield - 1 playoff win (1-1), coming in 3rd season
2019 - Kyler Murray - first playoff game tomorrow
2020 - Joe Burrow - 1 playoff win (1-0), first coming in 2nd season
2021 - Trevor Lawrence - never made the playoffs

I didn't know how this would look ahead of time. There are a lot more playoff wins overall than I expected, so perhaps that's a nice general reflection on the institution of number one overall QBs. Only two others were able to get a playoff win as quickly as Joe Burrow though (both bolded). Technically Trevor Lawrence still can.

I'm not suggesting this is a particularly meaningful review, but it interested me. At the very least we're off to a great start. Burrow has already matched Palmer and Dalton combined in playoff wins.

There is an strange similarity between Luck and Burrow.  Although Burrow is much more mobile than Luck, and I think the doesn't "take on" big hits, he sure gets his share of them.  The Colts failed to protect Luck and it shortened his career greatly.

I think Burrow's escapability is much improved with his knee 100% compared to early in the season, but the story of Luck should not be lost on the front office.  

I really liked the moves they made this past year, and I think they will take another step next season.  

[Rubekahn29]

(01-17-2022, 11:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: There is an strange similarity between Luck and Burrow.  Although Burrow is much more mobile than Luck, and I think the doesn't "take on" big hits, he sure gets his share of them.  The Colts failed to protect Luck and it shortened his career greatly.

I think Burrow's escapability is much improved with his knee 100% compared to early in the season, but the story of Luck should not be lost on the front office.  

I really liked the moves they made this past year, and I think they will take another step next season.  

Luck would easily be top 5 QB still today. They still need to protect Joe, but I do think Burrow and Lucks personality are so different, I dont see burrow retiring early even if he continues to get mauled. Luck, I believe didn’t hold football in a high regard and he valued other things more (nothing wrong with it), so I don’t think he truly enjoyed it like Burrow and other QBs do.

[KillerGoose]

(01-17-2022, 11:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: There is an strange similarity between Luck and Burrow.  Although Burrow is much more mobile than Luck, and I think the doesn't "take on" big hits, he sure gets his share of them.  The Colts failed to protect Luck and it shortened his career greatly.

I think Burrow's escapability is much improved with his knee 100% compared to early in the season, but the story of Luck should not be lost on the front office.  

I really liked the moves they made this past year, and I think they will take another step next season.  

I think you might be misremembering Luck here, racer. Luck was a very mobile QB. He ran a 4.67 forty and averaged nearly five yards per carry for his career. He was also a tank. 

You can see some of his mobility here. Also, another personal favorite, and one last one.


I agree with your overall point, though. They don't need an elite offensive line but even an average offensive line would be a significant upgrade. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-17-2022, 11:49 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I think you might be misremembering Luck here, racer. Luck was a very mobile QB. He ran a 4.67 forty and averaged nearly five yards per carry for his career. He was also a tank. 

You can see some of his mobility here. Also, another personal favorite, and one last one.


I agree with your overall point, though. They don't need an elite offensive line but even an average offensive line would be a significant upgrade. 

He wasn't a statue like Brady, but his mobility wasn't close to what Burrow is today.  He was a tank, though, and trying to run through guys also shortened his career.  I think Joe has realized that sliding and fighting for the next play is a wise choice.

I didn't mean to make it sound like he wasn't agile at all, just not like Burrow.  

[TecmoBengals]

(01-17-2022, 11:57 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He wasn't a statue like Brady, but his mobility wasn't close to what Burrow is today.  He was a tank, though, and trying to run through guys also shortened his career.  I think Joe has realized that sliding and fighting for the next play is a wise choice.

I didn't mean to make it sound like he wasn't agile at all, just not like Burrow.  

Burrow seems to have progressed about understanding when to protect himself and the ball. When the pocket collapses and the sack is coming, he's been good about covering up the ball with both hands and going down. I don't know if Luck always tried to make something happen, but if he did then surely it contributed to his injuries. 

[Rubekahn29]

(01-17-2022, 12:03 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Burrow seems to have progressed about understanding when to protect himself and the ball. When the pocket collapses and the sack is coming, he's been good about covering up the ball with both hands and going down. I don't know if Luck always tried to make something happen, but if he did then surely it contributed to his injuries. 

I saw Burrow run out of the pocket and throw it away Saturday. That was a good indication of growth. He also didn’t wait until he got all of the way to the sideline and risk a hit, he threw it away pretty quickly. He doesn’t do that often.

[KillerGoose]

(01-17-2022, 11:57 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He wasn't a statue like Brady, but his mobility wasn't close to what Burrow is today.  He was a tank, though, and trying to run through guys also shortened his career.  I think Joe has realized that sliding and fighting for the next play is a wise choice.

I didn't mean to make it sound like he wasn't agile at all, just not like Burrow.  

Man, agree to disagree I guess. Saying that he wasn't even close is wildly off the mark but the argument isn't important in the long run. Hell, Andrew Luck ran a faster three cone than Ja'Marr Chase did and ran a 4.59* forty. That dude was a pretty ridiculous athlete, especially at 234 pounds. 

[Essex Johnson]

(01-17-2022, 11:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: There is an strange similarity between Luck and Burrow.  Although Burrow is much more mobile than Luck, and I think the doesn't "take on" big hits, he sure gets his share of them.  The Colts failed to protect Luck and it shortened his career greatly.

I think Burrow's escapability is much improved with his knee 100% compared to early in the season, but the story of Luck should not be lost on the front office.  

I really liked the moves they made this past year, and I think they will take another step next season.  

We just don;t know about our 2021 draft picks, Smith went to IR early, Hill not seen the field much and Carman pretty much has ended up a backup after expectations that he would take over at RG this season.  This is a bit contrast to how the Chiefs scored with their draft picks this year, 2nd round center Humphrey was one of the top centers in the NFL his rookie year and 6th round Trey Smith played well also, both ended up on some All rookie teams... 

Just think if our 2nd round Carman and 4th round Smith performed at 60% of the same level would make us feel a bit more comfortable with them as they head into their 2nd year... 

Yes we signed Rieff but it is a one year deal, he is turing 34 this year and ended up on IR, what is left in his tank, been nice to have signed a younger player under a multi year contract,

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-17-2022, 12:13 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Man, agree to disagree I guess. Saying that he wasn't even close is wildly off the mark but the argument isn't important in the long run. Hell, Andrew Luck ran a faster three cone than Ja'Marr Chase did and ran a 4.59* forty. That dude was a pretty ridiculous athlete, especially at 234 pounds. 

What?  Chase ran the short shuttle in something crazy like 3.99, the first WR to break 4 seconds since Amari Cooper.

I am not sure the three cone, but I would assume he slipped or something.  Luck has a beast, but you are talking about speed, not elusiveness.  I would put Burrow up there right now with the likes of Mahommes and Rogers.  Luck just wasn't in that class of elusive.  

[KillerGoose]

(01-17-2022, 12:18 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: What?  Chase ran the short shuttle in something crazy like 3.99, the first WR to break 4 seconds since Amari Cooper.

I am not sure the three cone, but I would assume he slipped or something.  Luck has a beast, but you are talking about speed, not elusiveness.  I would put Burrow up there right now with the likes of Mahommes and Rogers.  Luck just wasn't in that class of elusive.  

Yeah, Chase ran a 3.99 short shuttle but a 6.96 three cone. Luck ran a 6.80 three cone with a 4.28 short shuttle. 

I would definitely like to see the offensive line upgraded more, I hate seeing Burrow take so many hits. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-17-2022, 12:18 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: We just don;t know about our 2021 draft picks, Smith went to IR early, Hill not seen the field much and Carman pretty much has ended up a backup after expectations that he would take over at RG this season.  This is a bit contrast to how the Chiefs scored with their draft picks this year, 2nd round center Humphrey was one of the top centers in the NFL his rookie year and 6th round Trey Smith played well also, both ended up on some All rookie teams... 

Just think if our 2nd round Carman and 4th round Smith performed at 60% of the same level would make us feel a bit more comfortable with them as they head into their 2nd year... 

I think Carman will be just fine and be the RG for a long time.  I wouldn't be surprised if Adeniji beats out Smith for RT, but both seem to have issues with health.

I know KC crushed it with their draft, especially with Humphrey.  But Carman was learning a new position and there was a lot of injury-related issues with Smith and Adeniji.  Spain was a monster in the run game, and I hope they get him back.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-17-2022, 12:23 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Yeah, Chase ran a 3.99 short shuttle but a 6.96 three cone. Luck ran a 6.80 three cone with a 4.28 short shuttle. 

I would definitely like to see the offensive line upgraded more, I hate seeing Burrow take so many hits. 

Burrow can make one guy miss.  He is a master at this, but when the pressure comes from two spots...too much.  The RT position needs a massive upgrade. 

Speaking of massive, how about 6'9", 400 lb RT Daniel Fa'alele, from Minnesota?  I don't want to look past this year, but watching him play was hilarious at times.  A DE would see him as a massive, immobile object so he would speed rush around him.  What the DE didn't account for was the absolute length of the man's arms.  Running full speed and getting punched by DF was highlight reel stuff.  

I loved when he would seal the edge in a run as well.  It looked like Keystone Cops as the defenders would run in to the wall and then the next defender would run in to the first defender and so on until his wall had piled up 4 guys.  

I know nothing of his character, or desire to play football, but God didn't make that many people his size and strength.  I hope the Bengals can steal him.  I knew Orlando Brown would have been a good choice despite his poor combine and I hope DF gets a shot here.  

[*Go Cards*]

#1 draft picks mostly go to horrible teams

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Note.

Joe Burrow did not do what Kyler Murray just did.

Yikes.

[*jason*]

(01-17-2022, 12:35 PM)Go Cards Wrote: #1 draft picks mostly go to horrible teams

Ours certainly did... But here we are.